I'm not Cypher, I'm just a Scout Sergeant...

[Brother Amarel]

With the clarification that a Combat Knife is a Close Combat Weapon, it means that a Scout Sergeant can arm himself with a Bolt Pistol and a Plasma Pistol (and, thus, get Gunslinger).

It might not be the smartest move (saving against Gets Hot on a 4+ <gulp>), but it's cool .

[Isiah]

Can he? I'll look at Codex later. But yes gunslinger would look cool.

[Harleqvin]

You can if this is allowed. Because the Scout (Vet)Sergeant can replace his Boltgun for a Combat Knife, which is a CCW, then swap out the Combat Knife for the Plasma Pistol.

 

 

Had to edit that a bit. Sorry guys. :lol:

[notmattlythgoe]

You can if this is allowed. Because the Scout (Vet)Sergeant can replace his Boltgun for a Combat Knife, which is a CCW, then swap out the Combat Knife for the Plasma Pistol.

Had to edit that a bit. Sorry guys.

And the big question is can you make swaps in order or is it just one swap allowed? I tend to lean towards it being one swap allowed and not being able to chain swaps, but I have no basis for this belief.

[Wraithwing]

Can anyone else smell Gorgonzola?

[Plastic Rat]

Yeah... sorry this smells like rules abuse. Two swaps like that doesn't sound like it was intended.

[facmanpob]

I think if you were playing a special 'Hunt the Fallen' type scenario then allowing the swap would be good fun - especially if it happened halfway through the game and suddenly your scout squad swaps sides and the sergeant whips out his plasma pistol and says "Aha, it was me all along!" ....... could make for a good Scooby Doo moment! :D

[Bryan Blaire]

What exactly allows the Combat Knife to Plasma Pistol swap? (Sorry, don't have my 'Dex at this moment)

 

Why is this cheese exactly? Can't Company Vets do something very similar? I would think that a Scout Company Sergeant (especially a Veteran Sergeant) would be just as proficient, if not more so than, a Company Veteran.

[facmanpob]

What exactly allows the Combat Knife to Plasma Pistol swap? (Sorry, don't have my 'Dex at this moment)

Why is this cheese exactly? Can't Company Vets do something very similar? I would think that a Scout Company Sergeant (especially a Veteran Sergeant) would be just as proficient, if not more so than, a Company Veteran.

The Scout Sergeant is allowed to replace his Boltgun with a combat knife for free, and page 51 of the BGB defines a combat knife as being a CCW. The Sergeant is also allowed to take weapons from the Melee and Ranged wargear lists, so swaps his newly acquired combat knife for a plasma pistol

[notmattlythgoe]

So why can't he just swap the bolter for the plasma pistol?

[Brother Amarel]

So why can't he just swap the bolter for the plasma pistol?

Because you can only swap a Bolt Pistol or Close Combat Weapon for a Plasma Pistol.

 

Doesn't strike me as cheesy, tbh. Especially not on a model with a 4+ save.

[Bryan Blaire]

It specifies which weapons have to be swapped? The rest of the sergeants just get access to the Melee and Ranged Weapons tables, which just specify "swap a weapon with" IIRC.

[elphilo]

It specifies which weapons have to be swapped? The rest of the sergeants just get access to the Melee and Ranged Weapons tables, which just specify "swap a weapon with" IIRC.

Ranged Weapons say: "A model can replace his bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon with one of the following:"

While melee weapons say: "A model can replace one weapon with one of the following:"

Yeah, apparently you have to do that switch if you want to be gunslinger.

[notmattlythgoe]

It specifies which weapons have to be swapped? The rest of the sergeants just get access to the Melee and Ranged Weapons tables, which just specify "swap a weapon with" IIRC.

Ranged Weapons say: "A model can replace his bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon with one of the following:"

While melee weapons say: "A model can replace one weapon with one of the following:"

Yeah, apparently you have to do that switch if you want to be gunslinger.

Gotcha.

[Bryan Blaire]

Yup, get it now.

 

It's interesting that they did that while the Company Vets entry still has its own internal options table to use, which allows a little more flexible swapping.

[Azoriel]

Alternately, couldn't one just swap out the sergeant's bolter for a chainsword, and then swap the chainsword for a plasma pistol?

[Mr.darkness]

Honestly, I don;t think anyone is going to care, especially if you use the cypher model.

[Brother Amarel]

Alternately, couldn't one just swap out the sergeant's bolter for a chainsword, and then swap the chainsword for a plasma pistol?

Officially, a Chainsword is not a generic Close Combat Weapon, it is a Chainsword.

[Bryan Blaire]

TBH, while I like the variation of weaponry going on, GW is not being very careful about it and this seems like one of those times where they are going to screw the pooch because of that.

[Olis]

Imho, a double swap, no matter how backwards the written options seems to be, strikes me as playing the system to get what you want AKA strong mature cheddar. With calcium crystals. However, if your opponents are cool with your sergeant going all Cypher on them, then by all means play him as such.

[elphilo]

Imho, a double swap, no matter how backwards the written options seems to be, strikes me as playing the system to get what you want AKA strong mature cheddar. With calcium crystals. However, if your opponents are cool with your sergeant going all Cypher on them, then by all means play him as such.

 

Eh, it's just a plasma pistol. If someone wants to make it easier to kill their sergeant for 15 points, I'm all for it :P

[Olis]

Well, tbh, if I was at the table and my opponent asked if this was okay, I'd very likely say yeah, sure. I'm easy going. Why would I get bent out of shape over it? It isn't a tournament game after all. Still wanted to throw in my tuppence though. :P

[Brother Amarel]

I'm not sure I'd call it a 'double swap' per se. If he started with a Combat Knife there would be no issue, and that's what the first option does it changes his starting equipment ("any model can take") and then, specifically, later on the Sergeant can pay for upgrades.

 

The first swap is free, it's just setting up your unit to be CC or Ranged oriented.

 

Would it, for example, be an issue if you swapped your starting equipment of a Bolter for a Sniper Rifle and then the Sergeant could, specifically, upgrade a Sniper Rifle for a Scoped Sniper Rifle? I don't think so.

 

Certainly I'd have no issue with someone doing this as it seems to just follow the rules. It's not even close to the idea of someone upgrading an Deathwing Terminator and then trying to give them back a Powerfist, for example.