Deathwing/Greenwing pointers

[Brother Darklight]

Greetings gents.

 

I played my first game last night as the boys in green and bone, and it went far worse than expected.

 

Firstly, here's the list I used (1996 points)

 

Belial

5 man DW Command Squad w/ 1x Lightning Claw, Champ, Apoth, DW banner, PlasmaCannon

 

5 man Deathwing Knights.

 

5 man Deathwing Termies. w/ Thunder hammer, Plasma Cannon, Chainfist

5 man Deathwing Termies. w/ Thunder hammer, Assault Cannon, Chainfist

 

Company Commander w/ Artificer, Monster Slayer of Caliban.

 

10 man Tactical Marine squad. w/ Plasmagun, PlasmaCannon

10 man Tactical Marine squad. w/ Plasmagun, PlasmaCannon

 

5 man Devastator squad. 4x Multimeltas, Vet Sergeant w/ storm bolter.

 

3 man Ravenwing Black Knights. w/ Grenade Launcher

 

 

Now, I know this codex just dropped, but my question probably pertains to the previous iteration as well...

 

What are some ways to keep the Deathwing Termies alive long enough to do damage when your opponent LOVES Plague Marines? I used the Belial Deathwing Assault shenanigans to get my Termies on the field and into cover the first and second turns... however my opponent managed to position his Plague Marines in such a way that he killed 7-10 of my 21 Terminators on the next turn when I tried to move out to deal some hurt. By the end of the game, I had 2 models in TDA left.

 

Has anyone figured out a good way to counter Plagues? Either Old or New codexes?

[facmanpob]

Well, Plague Marines important qualities are T5 and Feel no Pain. So the thing I would try to do is use the Black Knights Grenade launchers to reduce that T5 to T4, and then your power fists will cause Instant Death on the Plague marines in close combat, so he won't be able to roll FnP.

 

So my advice would be to get more Black Knights into the list to get more grenade launchers. :)

[MarshalHelva]

Its hard to say what you could have done differently without knowing whats in your opponents list and how you deployed but ive seen players get over confident with terminators before and treat them like they are invincible. chaos in particular can pack a whole lot o plasma in their list. I would say that in general one of the things to be careful with when playing a combined arms force is over extending yourself and allowing the opponent the luxury of only having to deal with small chunks of your army at a time with his entire force. im just guessing here but he probably found himself in a position where he could effectively ignore your tacticals, devs and black knights until he had dealt with the terminators.

[Brother Darklight]

Its hard to say what you could have done differently without knowing whats in your opponents list and how you deployed but ive seen players get over confident with terminators before and treat them like they are invincible. chaos in particular can pack a whole lot o plasma in their list. I would say that in general one of the things to be careful with when playing a combined arms force is over extending yourself and allowing the opponent the luxury of only having to deal with small chunks of your army at a time with his entire force. im just guessing here but he probably found himself in a position where he could effectively ignore your tacticals, devs and black knights until he had dealt with the terminators.

 

Hmm, well the terrain was set up in a way that didn't allow for a lot of lines of sight, and my devastators got annihilated on the first turn, so they couldn't stop any of the Rhinos or Hellbrutes wandering around. He had positioned in such a way that he could focus on parts of my army at a time... I'll work on avoiding that in the future

[EPK]

Yes, Deathwing armies are sometimes referred to as a glass hammer. Because they are more expensive, you have less boots on the ground and a few bad moves can hurt you severely.

 

You need to support individual units with each other. And remember, be smart about your deep strike. First, you don't have to do it at all if you choose not to and second, you don't always have to land right in their face.

 

Some things i might do with that list are for starters try it without the Co. Commander. Free up some points to round out the list. Where did he even fit into the list?

 

If he was able to pick you apart, perhaps it was due in part to your deployment. You have a lot of slogging units, and they need to work together. I wouldn't mind holding one of those tacts back in support of your Devs (on a home objective). And the other that is on the move - drop the PC, they may never get to use it effectively. A rhino could be helpful to get them where they need to go.

 

Anti-tank would be helpful. The MM Devs are a no go to me - no range. How did your opponent get to them turn? Perhaps you placed them forward to try to get range with their meltas.? Make them 4x ML (and you might want to think about flakk). Missile launchers offer a nice variety of armor kraking and infantry fragging along with anti-air if you invest. Don't even bother with the Vet Sarge or SB there. If you can fit it, try for a CML in one of those DW - that gives you a touch more krak as well.

 

Facemanpob has great advice on the RW Knights.

 

Another option you might consider is dropping either the DW Knights or the Command Squad and tossing Belial in a LRR (with whichever of those you keep - you could drop the Heavy weapon in that case). He can move up supported by the tactical in rhino as I mentioned. Now you have some armor for yourself to protect your boys, especially from plasma and such. AND, if you choose to you could DWA your two (or just one) shooty DW troop down - perhaps turn 2 - off of the LRR (as Belial has a homer inside) in support - vengeful strike twin-link shots. Soften up the target (or enemy support around it) before the assault.

 

I'm still interested in your opponents list.

 

Also, on a side note, you mentioned you used DWA to get termies on the board turn 1 AND 2. By the rule, any DW making a DWA must come in together on turn 1 OR turn 2 (not both). You could have course reserve any portion of your DW as normal and roll for reserves if you wanted them coming down both turns.

 

There is also some wisdom over on this thread about DW - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=269895

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

Did he pick you apart entirely with shooting and what was he shooting at you with? TDAs don't need cover the way say tau do, but if the enemy is packing plasma, you might want to do it. Secondly, what were you trying to do to him; were you trying to assault him or out shoot him? I can't tell from your list if all your terminators were equipped with TH or if it was just one. Also, what deployed in reserve and what did you do with your tacticals?

 

I haven't played with it yet, but I suspect that when I DS Deathwing, I'm not going to drop too many guys without some form of shooting attack. You can't assault from teleport and I want to take advantage of the TL ability on the turn they arrive. I'll probably let the power fists do the assault work, though I might still give them storm shields if I can (I'd have to look at the 'dex and I'm at work). For the assault, I'd probably bring Knights since they can do use their shields the turn they come in to better survive fire. These are just general thoughts though; like everyone siad, we need to see more about what you did exactly and what you faced.