Chapter Ideas - Projects & More

[Brother_Kovasir]

Hey Guys!

 

So I've decided that its about time I start kicking some heretical bums after being out of the game for about 5 years. I figured what better way to delve into warhammer again then to create a DIY Chapter. So I've been sitting on some ideas, and projects for the last few months and figured it was about time to start gauging reactions, testing the waters if you will.

 

One of my ideas, related to the project, was to co-found a chapter with another person. Essentially having another person or two that can sit down and bounce ideas off each other as we write out sections of the chapter. I'm not sure how well this would work but I think it would be interesting for a number of reasons. One being that you'd have two differing writing styles which would make for interesting articles. The second being that with two or more minds throwing ideas I don't think you'd end up with anything bland. Not to mention that you'd have someone to confirm your work and make sure you're riding that fine line between Mary Sue and sheer ridiculousness without falling to either side of said line.

 

The other project would be to take these ideas after refining them and turning it into a Codex. Mind you there would be alot of refining but I think it would be rather rewarding a project. Mind you I am testing the waters here so if interested, or even if you think it might work or not. Shoot me some ideas. Finally the Chapter ideas...

 

--Name--

I've had a few internal debates regarding the name of the Chapter. However, due to the general nature and demeanor of the chapter I was thinking of the "Sons of Morr". Yes a hint of fantasy there. (Though to my defense I didn't realize it until just recently. I had originally gotten the name from the Roman God Mors). The God of Death, which in the chapter's cult (originally picked up from the locals & recruits) is a representation of the Emperor which they fight for.

 

--Cult--

I think the cult will have a huge impact on this Chapter. Summed up quickly The Sons of Morr worship Morr, the God of Death; originally a local cult on the planet in which they pull recruits from which has changed ever so slightly to fit in with the Adeptus Astarte Now in turn, Morr is a representation of the Emperor and his fighting prowess. Being his Angels of Death they follow his every command. Now within the cult there is one who is deemed "The voice of Morr" or "Morr Incarnate" which is believed to be the embodied power of Death on our plane of existence in mortal form. (God help the chapter if anyone ever found out they had Morr Incarnate and they would be deemed Exterminatus in a heartbeat or quicker.) That's the cult idea I am fairly fond of however I want to see what B+C thinks.

 

--Appearance--

As far as appearance goes I'm pretty much up in the air. I was thinking of a darker suit with maybe a white helm to give the appearance of death Or perhaps even a fairly white or skull colored suit to give the appearance of a ghost. However, both of which seem somewhat dull in tone but they do fit the cult rather well. (Skulls, skulls everywhere!).

 

Any Ideas, critiques....warnings! Would be wonderful!

[Olis]

One of my ideas, related to the project, was to co-found a chapter with another person. Essentially having another person or two that can sit down and bounce ideas off each other as we write out sections of the chapter. I'm not sure how well this would work but I think it would be interesting for a number of reasons. One being that you'd have two differing writing styles which would make for interesting articles. The second being that with two or more minds throwing ideas I don't think you'd end up with anything bland. Not to mention that you'd have someone to confirm your work and make sure you're riding that fine line between Mary Sue and sheer ridiculousness without falling to either side of said line.

An interesting idea. Point of advice - a collaborative project always relies on communication and frankness, so don't be afraid to tell the other guy you don't like his idea. You both have to be happy with the end product, after all. That said, don't be afraid to push your own ideas either. So long as they have merit then they can contribute to the whole. Good luck in finding a good partner.

--Name--

I've had a few internal debates regarding the name of the Chapter. However, due to the general nature and demeanor of the chapter I was thinking of the "Sons of Morr". Yes a hint of fantasy there. (Though to my defense I didn't realize it until just recently. I had originally gotten the name from the Roman God Mors). The God of Death, which in the chapter's cult (originally picked up from the locals & recruits) is a representation of the Emperor which they fight for.

--Cult--

I think the cult will have a huge impact on this Chapter. Summed up quickly The Sons of Morr worship Morr, the God of Death; originally a local cult on the planet in which they pull recruits from which has changed ever so slightly to fit in with the Adeptus Astarte Now in turn, Morr is a representation of the Emperor and his fighting prowess. Being his Angels of Death they follow his every command. Now within the cult there is one who is deemed "The voice of Morr" or "Morr Incarnate" which is believed to be the embodied power of Death on our plane of existence in mortal form. (God help the chapter if anyone ever found out they had Morr Incarnate and they would be deemed Exterminatus in a heartbeat or quicker.) That's the cult idea I am fairly fond of however I want to see what B+C thinks.

What you may have to consider is that this chapter was named before they came to their current homeworld, so the idea that Morr is a local representation of the Emperor would likely be the wrong route to take on this. Cause and effect, you see. Now, you could say that the locals picked it up off of the chapter itself, but that would beg the question of where the chapter got it from in the first place, and so you would be back to square one. Unless you can somehow reconcile the name and the cult, the sad fact is you may very well have to choose one or the other. Keeping both simply isn't viable without a very good explanation.

--Appearance--

As far as appearance goes I'm pretty much up in the air. I was thinking of a darker suit with maybe a white helm to give the appearance of death Or perhaps even a fairly white or skull colored suit to give the appearance of a ghost. However, both of which seem somewhat dull in tone but they do fit the cult rather well. (Skulls, skulls everywhere!).

Might I suggest a cream and black halved colour scheme? Or perhaps Cream with a black helm, backpack and shoulder pads? I dunno, just spitballing.

Judging by the theme, it could be possible for the chapter to be a Mortifactors successor, given what you've written so far.

[Brother_Kovasir]

An interesting idea. Point of advice - a collaborative project always relies on communication and frankness, so don't be afraid to tell the other guy you don't like his idea. You both have to be happy with the end product, after all. That said, don't be afraid to push your own ideas either. So long as they have merit then they can contribute to the whole. Good luck in finding a good partner.

Thanks! And thanks for the quick reply!

What you may have to consider is that this chapter was named before they came to their current homeworld, so the idea that Morr is a local representation of the Emperor would likely be the wrong route to take on this. Cause and effect, you see. Now, you could say that the locals picked it up off of the chapter itself, but that would beg the question of where the chapter got it from in the first place, and so you would be back to square one. Unless you can somehow reconcile the name and the cult, the sad fact is you may very well have to choose one or the other. Keeping both simply isn't viable without a very good explanation.

That's a good point that I hadn't previously thought of...I'd probably keep the Cult seeing as how I am still up in the air in regards to the name. So need a name.

Might I suggest a cream and black halved colour scheme? Or perhaps Cream with a black helm, backpack and shoulder pads? I dunno, just spitballing.

Something like this? Not bad. This is what I was thinking originally.

OR

Judging by the theme, it could be possible for the chapter to be a Mortifactors successor, given what you've written so far.

Im still up for grabs on the founding chapter, I was originally thinking Salamanders but now that you mention Mort it would still be along the same lines I was thinking before. Although I do like Sala. for their views on human life (and I think they'd make the models a bit interesting to paint up.).

[EzekyleVIII]

i second the mortifactors suggestion, and i rather like scheme number 1 out of the 3, not saying any of them are bad its just my personal preference.

[Olis]

That's a good point that I hadn't previously thought of...I'd probably keep the Cult seeing as how I am still up in the air in regards to the name. So need a name.

Here's a few suggestions:

Nihilators

Angels of Oblivion

Stygian Brotherhood

Scions of Dis

Exanimators

Something like this? Not bad. This is what I was thinking originally.

This one is very similar to my suggestion - however, I would ditch the pure white trim, personally.

OR

This one seems a lot like the Mortifactors scheme, tbh (and I don't care for the second scheme, really). I think the first one is the best of the crop.

Im still up for grabs on the founding chapter, I was originally thinking Salamanders but now that you mention Mort it would still be along the same lines I was thinking before. Although I do like Sala. for their views on human life (and I think they'd make the models a bit interesting to paint up.).

Hmm. Well, if you do go down the Salamander route, I would suggest thinking about the juxtaposition of the themes of fire and mortality/death. Perhaps they prefer flamer/melta weaponry and cremate their dead (not like Vikings though - that would just mix themes). :)

[Brother_Kovasir]

i second the mortifactors suggestion, and i rather like scheme number 1 out of the 3, not saying any of them are bad its just my personal preference.

Agreed.

This one is very similar to my suggestion - however, I would ditch the pure white trim, personally.

So something more along the lines of this. (Mind you the grey on the exhaust is boltgun metal.)

Hmm. Well, if you do go down the Salamander route, I would suggest thinking about the juxtaposition of the themes of fire and mortality/death. Perhaps they prefer flamer/melta weaponry and cremate their dead (not like Vikings though - that would just mix themes).

Ooh come on! You know a Sala-Mort-Wolf combo would be awesome! Haha! Although the juxtaposition of fire and death remind me to much of the Inquisition and "We'll cleanse it with fire!". So Iam starting to lean more towards simply having their parent chapter be Mort w/ some, not much, but some tendencies of the salamanders. Though I will have to find a good reason for this.

[Wulfebane]

I'm curious as to why your chapter will be humanitarian given that they worship death. I would have assumed that they were a bit more.. callous. I'd be interested in hearing more about the heritage/culture of their homeworld.

 

Oh, and for what its worth, I'd vote a ghostly blue for the eye lenses. Red has been done to death, pun intended. And a steel color for the aquilla; same reason.

[EzekyleVIII]

A potential route for the humanitarian thing could be "this death is not for you" (protecting citizenry) if you can see the angle im coming from. Just throwing that out there.

[Olis]

This one is very similar to my suggestion - however, I would ditch the pure white trim, personally.

So something more along the lines of this. (Mind you the grey on the exhaust is boltgun metal.)

Yeah, something like that. I would be interested to find out how Wulfbane's suggestions would change the look of the scheme though. Think you could knock one up?

Ooh come on! You know a Sala-Mort-Wolf combo would be awesome! Haha! Although the juxtaposition of fire and death remind me to much of the Inquisition and "We'll cleanse it with fire!". So Iam starting to lean more towards simply having their parent chapter be Mort w/ some, not much, but some tendencies of the salamanders. Though I will have to find a good reason for this.

Okay, so Mortifactors it is. Now they are quite a dour chapter so you'll have to explore the move from the Mortifactor mindset to one less... callous, if that's the route which you want. How do they go from being just death obsessed to death obsessed and humane? Where in their psyche does the change happen? How does it happen? Why does it happen?

[Brother_Kovasir]

I'm curious as to why your chapter will be humanitarian given that they worship death. I would have assumed that they were a bit more.. callous. I'd be interested in hearing more about the heritage/culture of their homeworld.

Yea that is something that I will need to hammer out, and do so rather well I think in order to make this chapter come together in a story.

A potential route for the humanitarian thing could be "this death is not for you" (protecting citizenry) if you can see the angle im coming from. Just throwing that out there.

Yea I can see that, and its not a bad idea at all. Actually I think the angle is a rather good one.

Here's another question. When a chapter is formed and the first few or even squad of marines is taken to help the fledgling chapter. Do those marines have to be from the same chapter? I mean to ask could you get a few Ultramarine's maybe a Mortifactor and a few Salamanders? Or do they need to all be from the same chapter, or even same heritage? Or is those first few marines from the parent chapter where the geneseed came from?

Oh, and for what its worth, I'd vote a ghostly blue for the eye lenses. Red has been done to death, pun intended. And a steel color for the aquilla; same reason.

Yeah, something like that. I would be interested to find out how Wulfbane's suggestions would change the look of the scheme though. Think you could knock one up?

The Aquilla is boltgun metal wings with a golden head. Eyes were changed to icy blue. The other blues just looked...odd.

Here would be a standard marine, 2nd Company. (either that or I use bleached bone time and just mark their shoulders or knees with company.)

Okay, so Mortifactors it is. Now they are quite a dour chapter so you'll have to explore the move from the Mortifactor mindset to one less... callous, if that's the route which you want. How do they go from being just death obsessed to death obsessed and humane? Where in their psyche does the change happen? How does it happen? Why does it happen?

I dont know. I can think of a slew of ways to do it, however what is the best way or ends up with the best results and has a good story with it? One way that seems somewhat interesting to me is having the chapter pick up traits from the recruited population. I mean the chapter cult itself is already picked up from the locals right. So its not to far fetched that they pick up a few more things. Looking more at the Gene-Seed... I don't think it would be to far fetched to say the chapter believes its gene-seed is from the Ultramarine's when in fact it came from the Mortifactors. I mean a great deal of chapters claim it was one of the 1st founding chapters provided it with its spark of life. The interesting thing about saying that its the Ultramarines gene-seed, and having ultramarine's starting the chapter, providing it with a squad or two; could point to a tendency with the Mortifactor gene-seed in the sense that both chapters share similarities. IE Worshiping death. Definitely an idea I will have to hammer out in great detail to get it to work. However, I think if done right it would come out as an interesting story, providing some rather rich lore.

[darth_giles]

I did a scheme with a lot of Bleached Bone a while ago; it nearly got my head ripped off by some angry people because I got such a smooth coat of it. So yeah, good luck. People will be jealous.

 

That having been said, that's a wonderful scheme. I like seeing lots of Bleached Bone in a force.

[Brother_Kovasir]

I did a scheme with a lot of Bleached Bone a while ago; it nearly got my head ripped off by some angry people because I got such a smooth coat of it. So yeah, good luck. People will be jealous.

 

That having been said, that's a wonderful scheme. I like seeing lots of Bleached Bone in a force.

 

How did you do it? I'd imagine using a thinner of sorts. I've had great luck with Windex in the past however it's been a while since I've done any real painting.

 

Also Here is an updated theme.

http://s13.postimage.org/ewplhlxfn/spacemarine_3.jpg

Tactical 1st Company

 

http://s13.postimage.org/cdzb36mbn/spacemarine_2.jpg

Again w/ Bolter.

 

I really like this color theme. What do you guys think?

[Wulfebane]

Doesn't look like the colors came through. Its just a plain white marine.

[Brother_Kovasir]

Doesn't look like the colors came through. Its just a plain white marine.

Fixed. Mind you that the colors seem a wee bit more dull in this but its using the same colors as before. just a bit different in the mid section of the power armour and the shoulder pads.

[Wulfebane]

Personally, I like it!

[Olis]

I like the scheme. Simple yet effective.

[Brother_Kovasir]

Personally, I like it!

I like the scheme. Simple yet effective.

Thanks, and thanks for the input guys! I think these marines are going to come out rather nicely.

 

In regards to the name what do you guys think about...

 

Specters

Spectral Legion

Wraiths

Angel Lords

Death Lords

 

Any more ideas would be awesome. Thanks again guys!

 

EDIT:

I was thinking of a name, Guardians of Eternity or Eternity Guards. Perhaps given to them by a tarot "Forever shall you be in the service of the Emperor." Or Immortals based of the same premises as the previous.

[darth_giles]

How did you do it? I'd imagine using a thinner of sorts. I've had great luck with Windex in the past however it's been a while since I've done any real painting.

I cheated. I used Testors Desert Sand spray enamel, which color matched better to Bleached Bone than GW's own spray can. Only trouble was that I couldn't paint much over it because it caused a lot of detail degrading- I did a little bit of ink washing and that was it.

 

If I was doing it again, I'd go to a hardware store, get a pint of something that color-matches to Bleached Bone, and then run it thru a spraygun.

[Wulfebane]

Partial to Wraiths, myself. Needs an adjective though.

[Octavulg]

I actually like Sons of Morr.

 

Yes, there is the issue with them being named before they reach the planet. But, as I recall, chapters are named by the first Chapter Master (usually while consulting the Emperor's tarot or waiting for a vision or something like that). The mystic element in all of it conveniently eliminates the need for the name to be completely rational.

 

So, the Chapter Master names them the Sons of Morr. They don't know what it means. They wander around, find their home world: clearly a sign of the Emperor's divine providence. Settle, recruit, kill foes of Emperor.

[Brother_Kovasir]

I cheated. I used Testors Desert Sand spray enamel, which color matched better to Bleached Bone than GW's own spray can. Only trouble was that I couldn't paint much over it because it caused a lot of detail degrading- I did a little bit of ink washing and that was it.

Aha! Yea I've seen people do similar with, similar effects. A friends of mine suggests a few ways of doing it. that I am going to try out. One of which did involve a spray-gun and a thing of Bleached Bone from Vallejo games. Sometime next week I am going to try to test paint a few marines in various fashions to see how they come out and how differing methods of painting the bleached bone affect the end result. So I'll shoot you a pm to that when I post it up. ;)

 

 

I actually like Sons of Morr.

 

Yes, there is the issue with them being named before they reach the planet. But, as I recall, chapters are named by the first Chapter Master (usually while consulting the Emperor's tarot or waiting for a vision or something like that). The mystic element in all of it conveniently eliminates the need for the name to be completely rational.

 

So, the Chapter Master names them the Sons of Morr. They don't know what it means. They wander around, find their home world: clearly a sign of the Emperor's divine providence. Settle, recruit, kill foes of Emperor.

 

I was thinking that last night but my only fear is that it would feel, or seem to coincidental. However the way you explain it makes me think I could get away with it. :-P

 

Another question: How long does it take a new chapter whose freshly formed to amass a company and a fully blown chapter? Assuming recruiting numbers were going great. I know that for each batch of recruits it can take upwards of 20-50 years before even making scout depending upon the chapters methods, 20 being the enough time for the implants and some years after for training. After that I know it could take any number of years for a scout to be promoted to a full blown marine.

 

My real question is could the chapter field 2-3 companies within a 300 year span of time or, would 1-2 companies be more likely?

 

PS~

I will be writing up a brief for the chapter today or tomorrow that should give you an idea of what their story is before I start hammering it out.

[Messor]

We actually had a pretty thorough debate about the time frame for raising a Chapter a while back. The general consensus was that, with few interruptions, a Chapter could be at full strength in about a century, though probably without much experience.

 

edit: I'm pretty sure this is where the discussion on time frame begins. On the next page a couple of links are tossed in with resources explaining how long it takes to create a marine, and how it relates to building the entire force.

[Octavulg]

I was thinking that last night but my only fear is that it would feel, or seem to coincidental. However the way you explain it makes me think I could get away with it. :-P

 

Only the heretical see coincidence in the works of the Emperor. :P

 

Another question: How long does it take a new chapter whose freshly formed to amass a company and a fully blown chapter? Assuming recruiting numbers were going great. I know that for each batch of recruits it can take upwards of 20-50 years before even making scout depending upon the chapters methods, 20 being the enough time for the implants and some years after for training. After that I know it could take any number of years for a scout to be promoted to a full blown marine.

 

Depends on various factors.

 

The latest the Black Carapace can apparently be implanted is 18 years. The earliest you can start implanting organs is 10. So figure five or six years to train a Scout.

 

Next: how big's a training cadre? I'd expect two of each specialist, two command officers and four sergeants as a minimum. Perhaps one or two extra Sergeants. The chapter will also start with 1000 men worth of geneseed implants. It could be a lot more, of course - anything up to a company worth of men would make at least some degree of sense. But I'll go with a small cadre just for demonstration purposes.

 

There are a couple of ways things could go from here. The way I think it'd work (spoilered for length):

 

 

Initially, there are six officers (four sergeants, the First Captain and the Chapter Master). The Chapter Master serves as Scout Captain, the First Captain serves as senior Scout Sergeant, and the other four serve as Scout Sergeants. They thus train 54 Scouts.

 

Assume Scouts take 20% casualties in training in a five year period (likely high) and that ordinary Marines take 10% casualties (that 3+ save and some experience makes a world of difference). I count Scout Sergeants as Marines here. Note that practically speaking, this would happen gradually over the five year period.

 

You lose one Sergeant and 11 Scouts. Two Senior Officers, three Sergeants, 43 Marines remain. One Senior Officer takes 39 of the Marines and forms the First Company (40 Marines). The best four Scouts become Scout Sergeants (for a total of seven). The Scout Company can now take 72 recruits.

 

In the next five years, you lose four Marines and 14 Scouts. The First Company now has 89 Marines and one Senior Officer, and you promote an additional three Scout Sergeants for a total of one Senior Officer and 10 Scout Sergeants in the Scout Company. You take 100 recruits. So in just ten years, your Scout Company is over full strength and you've almost got a Battle Company.

 

Now, there are two possibilities. If the Chapter has a small home world and doesn't recruit outside it, that may be the maximum limit of how many recruits can be taken each year. However, with a larger home world, the Scout Company can keep growing until the Chapter is at full strength.

 

In the next five years, you lose 9 Marines, one Scout Sergeant and 18 Scouts, graduating 82. 9 go to the First Company, bringing it back to 90 Marines. 70 go to the Second Company. Three become Scout Sergeants (practically, they're promoted from the First and replaced). You have 12 Scout Sergeants and a Senior Officer in the Scout Company (who I'll count as a Scout Sergeant after this). You take 117 recruits, and almost have two Battle Companies after just fifteen years.

 

In the five years after this, you lose 16 Marines, one Scout Sergeant and 23 Scouts, graduating 94. 16 bring the companies up to strength, and 70 go to creating the Third Company (90/70/70). That leaves 8 to create Scout Sergeants. The Scout Company is now at double strength, with 20 Scout Sergeants. You take 180 recruits, and have about two and a half Battle Companies (plus lots of extra Scouts) after 20 years.

 

In the five years after this, you lose 25 Marines, two Scout Sergeants and 18 Scouts, graduating 162. 27 bring formations back up to strength, leaving 135. 40 bring the Second and Third up to 90 men each. 90 form the Fourth Company. The last five serve as Scout Sergeants (25 total). 225 recruits, 25 years.

 

Five years later, you lose 36 Marines, three Scout Sergeants and 23 Scouts, graduating 202. 39 bring formations up to strength, leaving 163. 90 form the Fifth, 60 form the Sixth, and the last three become Scout Sergeants (28). 252 recruits, 30 years.

 

Five years after this, you lose 42 Marines, three Scout Sergeants, and 25 Scouts, graduating 227. 45 bring formations up to strength, leaving 182. 30 go to the Sixth, 90 go to the Seventh, 60 go to the Eighth. Two become Scout Sergeants (30). 270 recruits, 35 years.

 

Five years after this, you lose 69 Marines, three Scout Sergeants and 27 Scouts, graduating 243. 72 bring formations up to strength, 30 bring the Eighth up to 90, and 90 more create the Ninth. This leaves 71. If you take twenty Scout Sergeants out of the Scout Company, you bring every company to full strength and have a full strength Scout Company after a mere forty years.

 

 

 

Plausible enough math would suggest that it'd take you a mere 25 years to have four Battle Companies at nearly full strength, and only forty to reach full Chapter strength. And that's with a fairly small training cadre of less than twenty Marines.

[Messor]

Jeebus, Octavulg, where were you with this awesome logic in that other discussion! I started out thinking the same thing, and by the end they had me convinced that a hundred years was the minimum to reach full strength.

[Octavulg]

Working on third year law school and being disgusted with the way none of the founding numbers even vaguely line up with a timeline, as I recall. :P

 

The casualty rates are just rough guesses, mind. And they really should be equal if you want to maintain a chapter at a consistent size.

 

Other factors might drag it toward a hundred years, but there's no medical bottleneck.