Epistolary Exander Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Considering this discussion is stealing the Betrayer thread, it is probably wise to move the discussion here regarding how Scouring of Propsero affected the each side before and after it. Continuing on from DarthMarko. The SW being reduced from 10s of thousands of marines down to a few thousand marines after the Battle of Tizca with Russ apparently with drawing to Fenris for unknown amount of years in the Heresy. Dozens/ hundreds of Custodes also killed in the battle, Magnus along with 1000 powerful librarians escaping. It would appear the Battle of Tizca was a pyrrhic victory for the Imperium. Source? How you are throwing numbers is just wrong...Also people are using book where TS are protagonist (you know hero death and all), but fact is prospero burned in a day... Also, you really are forgeting that Tzeench removed his gift (god mode), and then TS became regular psyker astartes (like they were before Magnus), so it all comes down to Tzeench... I he gave them god mode and Magnus organized defences SW wouldn't survive, but agains regular psykers (who can overheat:-) SW win 10/10.... Fact SW were in the vanguard during the great scouring in which they lost majority of the legion..And that's freaking fact which only shows that numbers from your conjecture are wrong... The figure of 4000 space wolves leutering around Tizca after the battle is from Hauser in PB. Along with any other disparate groups of the SW in the Imperium during the Heresy a few thousand space wolves sounds about right. The 10s of thousands of space marines is considering how every other legion apart from the 1KSons numbered in the 10000s of marines, while the 1k sons numbered around 9k in ATS, which states the 1Ksons are the smallest legion. PB even states that the SW had the advantage of numbers over the 1KSons before the battle. As the SW number 2k in Battle of the Fang and that states the legion was split in half in the 2nd founding, tells us the SW numbered 4k after the Heresy which suggests they didnt take many more casaulties between the Scouring of Prospero and the 2nd Founding. As for the deaths of the Custodes all that is known is that a significant number took part in the battle under the direct command of Valdor out of their entire number of a 1000. Therefore why I've said dozens/ hundreds of dead Custodes in the above figure. PB ends with Russ on Fenris and as it looks like the SW didnt loose too many more marines it looks like the SW didnt conduct in any significantly large deployment of marines, engaging in heavy fighting the traitors during the rest of the Heresy considering a heavy death toll between both sides whenever they typically engage in the series so far. Yes the SW took part in Chondax, but from we know of that so far its not like the AL allowed the SW to properly tackle the main body of their fleet, supporting the above argument. Again this could all be up ended by any future work in the series, like how the World Eaters went from numbering 40k in Raven's Flight to 70k in Butcher's Nails. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270006-battle-of-tizca/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Two questions. 1.) I thought the White Scars were in the Chondax system, not the Space Wolves? 2.) In the case of the World Eaters numbers, couldn't have simply been a case of only 40k were at Istvaan and 70k happened to be present during Butcher's Nails? As I recall it being stated in the same audio drama that the XII and XVI were split up into more than a few battle groups that were razing Ultramar simultaneously. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270006-battle-of-tizca/#findComment-3289449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epistolary Exander Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 The White Scars are at Chondax, but the AL fleet attacked both fleets in order to try and prevent them from reaching Terra. I doubt it, the WE are known to be below half strength after Isstvan 3 (Galaxy in Flames) and the average size of a legion at full strength is 100k. 40k space marines sounds about right in those circumstances. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270006-battle-of-tizca/#findComment-3289500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I thought that Salamanders were the smallest legion??? Also there is a whole 4th fellowship (1000) sent away by Magnus (story rebirth) who were killed by World Eaters scouring the ruins, but cpt Arvida escaped, swore to find the other survivors of the fourth fellowship and lead them to fight the true cause of his legion's destruction (he apparently didn't blame the Wolves for what they did), and perceived as a Corvidae that he would not die on Prospero, and would go on to perform what he intended to do.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270006-battle-of-tizca/#findComment-3289547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 The Salamanders only became the smallest Legion directly following the events of Istvaan V. Due to extreme losses and no way to recover, they have since become the smallest Chapter(when at full strength) of the Loyalist Astartes. It is also why they have no confirmed Successors and if the confirmation is ever given, that is why it took until the 21st Founding before their gene-seed was used. Assuming confirmation of lineage between the Salamanders and the Black Dragons. As for the smallest Legion, it's a toss up between the Emperor's Children and the Thousand Sons. Both suffered tragic disasters before their Primarchs were found. Both have since been rebuilt. And both are assumed to have 1000 members per Company. A standard which hasn't exactly been kept. In fact, there doesn't seem to be a standard when it comes to numbers except when it comes to the more..."organized" Legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270006-battle-of-tizca/#findComment-3289556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darog Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 From HH visions: http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u404/Max_Golovanov/Untitled-1-3_zps74810f9c.jpg http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u404/Max_Golovanov/Untitled-2_zps8be935af.jpg http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u404/Max_Golovanov/Untitled-3_zpsbb56e35b.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270006-battle-of-tizca/#findComment-3290025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Thanks for sharing - very interesting indeed ! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270006-battle-of-tizca/#findComment-3290080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 GW Publishing arms' spelling mistakes are killing me. Misspelling Khan like Kahn? Really? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270006-battle-of-tizca/#findComment-3290124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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