Tiger9gamer Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Alright, chose to take the displacer field in a game today, and it turned out pretty good, but my opponent brought up something. If you save yourself and scatter away from your squad, is the unit all alone? if it just teleports, do they get out of the squad automatically? and is it worth 5 points to upgrade to displacer field without this trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I would fall back on the whole BRB section about characters and unit coherency. Coherency is the big issue with characters, If the teleport removes the character from unit coherency, sure, the character is no longer in that unit. That could end up stranding him out in the open at the end of the enemy's shooting phase, which could open him up to being assaulted solo. Of course the teleport could also end up removing the character from one unit and putting him in coherency with another. There will probably be an FAQ, but I see no conundrum with regard to how this bit of wargear works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkspleen Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 It's actually pretty clear cut. "An Independent Character can leave a unit during the Movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it. He cannot join or leave during any other phase" So the character continues to be part of the unit until you get to have a movement phase, at which point he is either forced to move back into coherency as he is part of the unit, or he chooses to disconnect and moves wherever he wants. If said unit is still locked in combat, the character cannot move because he is part of a unit that's locked in combat, and so he can't detach from the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Well, there you go then. What happens in close combat is already covered in the displacer field rules, but this would cover shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 And when he's displaced, he has to pile back in those 3". What I wonder is, what happens if a guy with this gets displaced from a challenge, which only happens in B2B. Is he moved out of it and can't fight neither the other challenger nor the enemy unit he's locked in combat with? Or can he fight the unit, but not the challenger anymore? Or does he have to just pile in back into the b2b with the challenger to continue the challenge and can't fight the enemy unit nor be fought by them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkspleen Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 He piles back in however he wants, but he is still in the challenge, and as such, regardless of where he piles in to, he is considered to be in base to base contact with only the other person in the challenge, the challenge continues, it can only end when one of the characters dies or when one side flees the combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Citation please? :D I mean, he has to get into b2b with the challenger to be in the challenge - if he's blinked away, he's not in the challenge anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Citation please? "FIGHTING A CHALLENGE If a challenge is accepted, it is time to move the two combatants into base contact with each other. Note that... For the duration of the challenge, these two models are considered to be in base contact only with each other. ... ROUND TWO If both combatants survive a challenge, and neither side fled from combat, then they continue to fight in the next round of close combat.", BRB, Pg.65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 So, as I said, he can get scattered 6" away and if his 3" is not enough to get within 2" of a viable target in the enemy unit / withing 2" of a friendly, who's in 2" (so on), then he's out of combat, out of challenge and on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 If he never truly leaves the combat (i.e. becomes unengaged), then the challenge is not over while he (or his enemy) is alive, ergo... "For the duration of the challenge, these two models are considered to be in base contact only with each other." There is no loop-hole here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azatoth Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Assuming the opponent strikes first and the character blinks away, would he still be able to strike back at his I? He is considered to be only in BtoB with his challenge opponent, but physically this is no longer the case, so he sould be unable to strike back? Of course he can not punch someone else in frustration. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkspleen Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Citation please? :D I mean, he has to get into b2b with the challenger to be in the challenge - if he's blinked away, he's not in the challenge anymore? He doesn't have to get into b2b, in fact, the challenge rules specifically allow for him to not be in b2b even before he teleports away "If neither of these moves would result in the two models being in base contact, 'swap' the challenger to as close as possible to the challengee and assume the two to be in base contact for the purposes of the ensuing fight." It's perfectly acceptable for the two participants in a challenge to not be in actual base to base contact, it doesn't matter because for the duration of the challenge they count as being in base to base contact anyway. Assuming the opponent strikes first and the character blinks away, would he still be able to strike back at his I? He is considered to be only in BtoB with his challenge opponent, but physically this is no longer the case, so he sould be unable to strike back? Of course he can not punch someone else in frustration. :) He doesn't blink away till after the Initiative 1 step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Assuming the opponent strikes first and the character blinks away, would he still be able to strike back at his I? He is considered to be only in BtoB with his challenge opponent, but physically this is no longer the case, so he sould be unable to strike back? Of course he can not punch someone else in frustration. :) I would say based on the rule, he's still in B2B of his challenge. Just like shabbaddo said: If he never truly leaves the combat (i.e. becomes unengaged), then the challenge is not over while he (or his enemy) is alive, ergo... "For the duration of the challenge, these two models are considered to be in base contact only with each other." There is no loop-hole here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead01 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Assuming the opponent strikes first and the character blinks away, would he still be able to strike back at his I? He is considered to be only in BtoB with his challenge opponent, but physically this is no longer the case, so he sould be unable to strike back?Of course he can not punch someone else in frustration. Displacement is after IN-1 effectively IN-0. I recall this device from second ED. , What happens if the displaced would end up off the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 Idk, but I think I may have to replace my plasma pistol for a power field. Too many shenanigans X-X kind of a waste, though, as he would be with 5 knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Assuming the opponent strikes first and the character blinks away, would he still be able to strike back at his I? He is considered to be only in BtoB with his challenge opponent, but physically this is no longer the case, so he sould be unable to strike back? Of course he can not punch someone else in frustration. Displacement is after IN-1 effectively IN-0. I recall this device from second ED. , What happens if the displaced would end up off the table? They are scattered like a droppod, they won't go where they can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Scatter is at the end of each phase where he takes a save.... So at the END of shooting phase he scatters. If the unit he was with gets charged he MUST pile in. At the end of assault Init-0 (after all blows are struck) but before you calculate combat results (who runs away) If the unit he was with is locked in combat he must immediately pile in. He is still considered locked in combat, and if in a challenge, he is still in a challenge, unless he killed the enemy. The Displacer field cannot be used to get out of close combat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 He doesn't have to get into b2b, in fact, the challenge rules specifically allow for him to not be in b2b even before he teleports away I would say based on the rule, he's still in B2B of his challenge. Just like shabbaddo said: I thinkg there's a bit of stretching going on there, from the sounds of things.. "For the duration of the challenge, these two models are considered to be in base contact only with each other." The rule does not say it allows them to still count as being in B2B even if they aren't. It's clarifying that if either combatant sould, physically, be in B2B with other enemy models those other enemies are ignored, and said other enemies ignore them as well. If they get moved out of B2B physically, they're going to be out of B2B period, and will have to move back into contact in order for the challenge to continue since neither qualifier for it to end has been met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Moving into a challenge:"If possible, swap the challenger for a friendly model in base contact with the challengee. If this cannot be done, swap the challengee for a friendly model in base contact with the challenger. If neither of these moves would result in the two models being in base contact, 'swap' the challenger to as close as possible to the challengee and assume the two to be in base contact for the purposes of the ensuring fight." For this example lets assume we both have an Initiative of 5 Character. So challenge is issued. It is accepted, we move into B2B following the rules listed above. We fight, I roll my 3++ due to displacer field Then at Initiative 1 after all blows are struck, I roll scatter and a D6". Since I was in combat I then must make a pile in move immediately after the displacement is resolved. I'm assuming since we're in a challenge I need to pile in to your character as much as I can for this challenge. Next assault. Initiative 5 happens, we are not in B2B because of displacer field. We MUST move into B2B because we are in a challenge. If we can't make it we are to assume we are for the purpose of the challenge. Rinse and repeat until the challenge is completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkspleen Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 He doesn't have to get into b2b, in fact, the challenge rules specifically allow for him to not be in b2b even before he teleports away I thinkg there's a bit of stretching going on there, from the sounds of things.. "For the duration of the challenge, these two models are considered to be in base contact only with each other." The rule does not say it allows them to still count as being in B2B even if they aren't. It's clarifying that if either combatant sould, physically, be in B2B with other enemy models those other enemies are ignored, and said other enemies ignore them as well. If they get moved out of B2B physically, they're going to be out of B2B period, and will have to move back into contact in order for the challenge to continue since neither qualifier for it to end has been met. Way to cite the wrong quote for me... now tell me why this quote that I actually used doesn't allow them to count as being in base to base when not in base to base? "assume the two to be in base contact for the purposes of the ensuing fight." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 OMG... for purposes of a Challenge you may as well open up a wormhole and put both combatants on a 50x50 platform floating in space with nothing around.... They can fight only each other, and no one else can interfere and they MUST fight each other... They dont even need to be close to each other to make a challenge, just in the same combat, you cannot hide... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 OMG... for purposes of a Challenge you may as well open up a wormhole and put both combatants on a 50x50 platform floating in space with nothing around.... They can fight only each other, and no one else can interfere and they MUST fight each other... They dont even need to be close to each other to make a challenge, just in the same combat, you cannot hide... Yeah, you know, because a Space Marine Librarian would care that a Tyranid Broodlord claims his 'mother wears combat boots'. Challenges are the one bone-head stupid part of 6th Ed. And the one thing I always try and house-rule into oblivion in any game I play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Challenges are the one bone-head stupid part of 6th Ed. And the one thing I always try and house-rule into oblivion in any game I play. They're the main reason I haven't found more time for gaming too, just so stupid compared to the rest of the game mechanic. :P s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion El Jason Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Challenges don't need to be formal issued challenges, just think of every film ever where the hero ends up fighting the main villain one on one despite a whole battle going on around them... Batman still found Bane. What they do is they provide interesting tactical options for maximising your damage or minimising enemy characters attacks. They also add a cinematic element which has always been prevelant in the stories and fluuf but now has a place in the game. If you think of them as Calgar taking off his power armoured Gauntlet of Macragge and slapping an pheonix lord in the face before facing off it seems wrong, but thats not how they throw down, its more like they are obviously going to end up fighting each other while their units are occupied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 For tactics, I relized it's pretty damn stupid for a displacer field commander being with a DW knight squad. All I need is to scater 1d6 away from my shield wall. is it worth it to have a 3++ save, 5 Attacks and a plasma pistol for 185pts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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