help sw

[Deathwatch/Grey knight]

as you would know who i am i i practicably pop up everywhere but i need help

 

a month a go i started this

Did anyone know about the Space Wolves flaw?

 

 

sadly it just went to another executioner argument which i know i saw them as executioners but after reading prince of crows i just dont know anymore

 

now i hadnt check the post for awhile until and my fav novel the first heretic author A-D-B showed cause some 12yr olds heretics were saying he was a sw fan hater or some :cuss like that

 

but its been a while since anyone replied but i wanted to anyway it says topic is locked how is my topic locked and how do i get it unlocked

 

btw it was my first time seeing an author on here

[Billuriye]

Custodes and Sisters saw the Wulfen in action. It is implied that Emperor deliberately put canine stuff into Russ' DNA. Being the genius he is, he probably knows the complications that come with it. So yes, somebody knew about the flaw.

[DarthMarko]

^This - but there is also Angel - boy who was scared to say anything to the Emp about their red thirst or some gak like that....

Now the real question is - does the flaw come from Empy or from chaos...

Like @Billuriye said I inclined to belive that Wulfen were Emp's design, but for the "thirst" I don't know...

[Ezeriel]

The other legions probably didn't know anything about the wulfen but Emp/Malcador probably knew the whole time and allowed it since the wulfen were useful.

[Grimtooth]

Well you can look at this question from two points of view,

 

1. The transformation into wulfen is based on intelligent design by the Emperor and therefore it would be known by him, Malcador, and others within his circle.

 

or

 

2. It was a complete fluke of the geneseed, but tolerated by the Emperor and those within his inner circle.

 

In either case, the Wolves have never been sanctioned for it with the only exception being the Wolf Brothers whose fate is pretty up in the air between old fluff and new fluff.

[Kol Saresk]

^This - but there is also Angel - boy who was scared to say anything to the Emp about their red thirst or some gak like that....

Now the real question is - does the flaw come from Empy or from chaos...

Like @Billuriye said I inclined to belive that Wulfen were Emp's design, but for the "thirst" I don't know...

Or are the flaws simply a result of the fact that the base DNA is human, an organism that hardly perfect in any stretch of the word.

[Billuriye]

There are also guys like Bran Redmaw who can smoothly transition between Astartes and Wulfen and retain his sense. Also in Deathwolf, a SW wins the day by halfly relinquishing himself to the Wolf. Makes you doubt how much of a flaw it is.

[Lord Ragnarok]

but its been a while since anyone replied but i wanted to anyway it says topic is locked how is my topic locked and how do i get it unlocked

 

I closed the original topic because there was plenty of discussion of who possibly knew and it went off topic despite warnings. All of it is subjective and supposition since there has not been a definitive answer by any author/GW and I'm not sure how much additional discussion be had.

 

That said, I will allow the discussion to continue here as the original thread is too contaminated with off topic rants/debates.

I would suggest you change the title to something like "Who knew about the SW flaw part 2" or something to that effect.

 

I will follow it closely and may issue warnings to folks for bringing up the ADB debate.

[Kol Saresk]

There are also guys like Bran Redmaw who can smoothly transition between Astartes and Wulfen and retain his sense. Also in Deathwolf, a SW wins the day by halfly relinquishing himself to the Wolf. Makes you doubt how much of a flaw it is.

I think the flaw isn't necessarily the flaw itself as like the Red Thirst, it can be a great boon to an Astartes as it lets them enter a hyper-focused state where they refuse to feel pain but are able to do things that no "normal" Space Marine could do, fighting on with an arm missing, internal bleeding, disembowelment, a missing eye, broken bones and even ruptured organs. Granted, each one of these injuries individually would not be enough to cripple a "normal" Space Marine, but put together and any Astartes that can still be a force to be reckoned with is... indescribable. For Space Wolves, they lose themselves to their already pronounced predatory instincts and for some reason, giving into this primal state results in mutations such as a deteriorated state of mind. It's not a flaw in and of itself, it's a flaw because of what can happen and what is the usual result.

 

The Wolf Brothers for example. It was believed that the majority of them were taken over by the Wolf and simply went berserk, for whatever apparent reason. There was a purge and now very few are known to exist(I can only think of one but it seems rather stifling to say he was the only survivor), and it is a safe bet to say that they are all Renegades in some form or fashion. If the same thing were to happen to the Space Wolves themselves, it is more than likely that there would be severe allied casualties due to Friendly Fire from the Space Wolves before order could be restored. By then, the Chapter would be declared Excommunicatus. And I'm not talking about like in Wolf's Honour were in all the Space Wolves were exposed to the Wulfen inside but thankfully few enough turned. I'm talking about an event similar to the Blood Angels losing themselves to the Red Thirst like they did in Deus Sanguinius were virtually all of the Blood Angels present went berserk, but with Imperials present to witness and suffer it in a public enough theater that it couldn't be covered up like it was in the Ragnar series.

[Grimtooth]

We have three lines of fluff with regard to the Wolf Brothers;

 

1. They chased some Eldar in a webway and were never heard from again.

2. They were disbanded due to genetic instability.

3. They were destroyed on Gangava in battle of the Fang.

 

The flaw manifests itself during high times of stress, exposure to Chaos, or via sorcerous manipulation. We have seen it happen across several novels and across several time frames. To say that it wasn't known by the Emperor during the GC or later is being a little naive.

[Kol Saresk]

I've only ever heard of number 2. But that's just me.

 

In the case of "exposure to Chaos," it's something I've never seen in the fluff. not saying it's not true, just that I've never seen. Example, Ragnar has come into exposure to Chaos several times. But he's okay. The 13th Company have been exposed to Chaos all their lives since the Heresy, but not all of them are, for better lack of word, werewolves yet, although they were all "Marked by the Wulfen" all the way back in the Great Crusade. And of course, there is the classic Wolf Brother Renegade from Dead Sky, Black Sun and Iron Warrior who is never shown to even succumb to the Wulfen. At all.

 

There always seems to be some side factor other than "exposure to Chaos" to label it as a reason in my opinion because if that's the case, then every Space Wolf to some degree should be "Marked by the Wulfen" unless they are a raw recruit who has no experience fighting Traitors/Renegades is all I'm saying. The forms of Chaos are many and varied and unless they never left Fenris or died very early in their lives as Astartes, it's highly improbable that they would not have come into contact with Chaos at some point.

[Darog]

Wolf brothers were mutants or become renegades.  In any case, at the time M42  they nearly destroyed, individual units may be found among the renegades.

[Kol Saresk]

M42 or M41?

[Deathwatch/Grey knight]

there was one in that renegade group uriel ventris found on the IW daemon world

[EzekyleVIII]

i'm sure i've read a story somewhere, that involved some remaining wolf brothers ambushing some space wolves.. may have been in the omnibus i'm not sure.

But on topic, I definately believe the flaw is known about in some form or another, again half remembered readings where the wulfen have been seen in combat etc. that and there were no wolves on fenris :P sorry couldnt resist!

[Kol Saresk]

I've never heard of a story about Wolf Brothers attacking Space Wolves. 0_0

 

I want it.