Veteran Sergeant Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The fact that lorgar alone fell from grace is proof anyone could. The Primarch Chaplain of the the Emperors truth turned. No one was safe. Lorgar was the weakest and most vulnerable of the primarchs, especially after Monarchia. His turning was second only to Angron in terms of "pretty much automatic". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3291026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Horus. That's the whole tragedy behind the Horus Heresy. Dorn too, maybe. It's safe to say that once a primarch falls into a Chaos God's clutches, it is game over. Case in point Mortarion, the most resilient of all primarchs, basically begged Nurgle to "MAKE IT STOP!". This isn't playing into someone's weakness like Chaos Gods mostly do due to their limitations. This is sheer overwhelming. It means Dorn's stony personality or Sanguinius humility or Guilliman's whatever counts for nil when you have their full attention. Very true. When you see Nurgle making the Death Guard turn, or Tzeentch making the Scourged insane or Khorne doing the same with the Crimson Slaughter, well, it's hard to imagine a limit to their power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3291027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Lion El, Johnson : Inability to understand people tends to be distrustful while at the same time being a secretive bastard i can see him being turned by Chaos under the right conditions Rogal Dorn : I see no scenario where he could have been turned not because he has no flaws but becaus he is to dogmatic to change. Roboute Guilliman : I can see his indirect arrogance and self righteous smugness used to manipulate him into turning. Leman Russ : Could easily have become another Angron sans the the Butchers Nails under the right conditions Jaghatai Khan : Resentment over not being understood might have made him turn Corvus Corax : I see no scenario where he could have been turned Sanguinus : Almost turned only saved by sacrifice of his apothecary. Ferrus : Stubborn quick to anger unsure about his standing amongst his brothers could not be directly turned but could probably have been manipulated into turning Vulkan : I see no scenario where he could have been turned has no real flaws for Chaos to manipulate Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3291043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The concept of Guilliman as smug or arrogant seems to be entirely invented. There aren't any sources that support this concept. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3291150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachnid99 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 If you were to pick one, it would have to be Guilliman. He seemed to have no aspirations to do anything else than what he felt he was supposed to do. He was the Good Son. Chaos would have had little to offer him. Couldn't disagree more, he was an arrogant, private Empire building git who was already planning Imperium 2.0 during the Heresy. He's like Alpharius and Perturabo in that he's one of the few Primarchs who would turn against the Emperor without having turned to Choas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3291243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 It's okay to disagree. I'm asking you to provide evidence that supports the argument. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3291278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 alright, let me correct a few things from these last few posts. @godking: please show me any evidence, IN PRINT, where the mindless fury of angron appears in russ. ANYTHING. even when the Wolves were replused by the sorcery of the T-Sons on Shrike, and evidence (to his eyes) showed Russ how Magnus had fallen, what did he do? did he berserk charge the T-Sons lines? no. He called for the censure of his brother and vowed that this would be avenged. VERY different from the actions of Angron. Dorn: being dogmatic to change? unyeilding under pressure? both of those are qualities of the death guard and nurgle as well. the Khan would turn because he wasnt understood by his brothers? thats just foolish. He believed in his Father's dream of a unified humanity. both arachnid99 and godking: please show me any place, IN PRINT, where Guilliman is arrogant, self righteous or smug. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3291280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 alright, let me correct a few things from these last few posts. @godking: please show me any evidence, IN PRINT, where the mindless fury of angron appears in russ. ANYTHING. even when the Wolves were replused by the sorcery of the T-Sons on Shrike, and evidence (to his eyes) showed Russ how Magnus had fallen, what did he do? did he berserk charge the T-Sons lines? no. He called for the censure of his brother and vowed that this would be avenged. VERY different from the actions of Angron. Dorn: being dogmatic to change? unyeilding under pressure? both of those are qualities of the death guard and nurgle as well. the Khan would turn because he wasnt understood by his brothers? thats just foolish. He believed in his Father's dream of a unified humanity. both arachnid99 and godking: please show me any place, IN PRINT, where Guilliman is arrogant, self righteous or smug. WLK The Spacewolves are the heavies that the Emperor used to completly and savagely destroy an enemy to the point that other Imperial Army forces where wary of working with them as seen in Prospero burns. Russ is not Exactly like Angron but close to him. Dorn had not the personal issue with the emperor that Mortarion had. Horus was the only Primarch close to the Khan and did believe that he could compel him to turn. The first Heretic Know no Fear Guilliman assuming that Lion,el El,Johnson would fall in line with him Horus . Guilliman is not really a bad guy its just that his somewhat overbearing character makes him unlikeable even when he is right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3291607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Russ is not Exactly like Angron but close to him. I'm not seeing it. One is a lobotomized, maniacal rage monster and stuck in the master-slave paradigm. The other is a savage, cunning warlord with pack mentality. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3291644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 beat me to the punch. wait, i forgot the time when Russ started killing off his own officers when the Emperor recovered...wait, that was Angron. I'm not seeing any real connection, other than their skill at close combat. so, basically, you have no real proof for your assumptions. thats what i just read. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3291728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrolf the Cunning Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I think the argument that Russ would turn from the Emperor is rather weak. I think even a cursory scanning of any written material regarding Russ and wolves indicates that their loyalty to Emperor is top notch. They seem to get tasked with some of the most unpalatable tasks and complete them without complaint. They dont enjoy it but the accept that is their purpose. That combined with older fluff mention of SW innate resistance to the warping influence of chaos through the canis helix (although this seems to have taken a back seat in recent times). Also with regard to the Khan, I was of the understanding that at least Russ and Khan were rather close having developed from warrior societies with similar values. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3291886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalKing1417 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Me personally? I believe all the primarchs could be corrupted by chaos, though the methodology behind it might differ. For example, Vulkan's love of humanity, his greatest strength, could easily be turned against him and the emperor for some truly tragic results. In my opinion, the hardest to corrupt would be Sanguinus, and even then, a few tweaks here and there to his history, or a bit more effort made by the chaos gods to corrupt him than Horus, and even he too would likely be corruptable. Ultamately only the master of mankind himself is exempt from chaos's grasp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMaster Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 "Roboute Guilliman was the greatest of the primarchs, and never once wavered in his dedication and service. Why was it that Horus turned to the powers of Chaos, perfect as he supposedly was, when Guilliman, "his inferior", is still renowned ten thousand years later as the shining example of a primarch? It is because Guilliman had learned incorruptibility. For whatever reason, from whatever source, Guilliman had shaped his mind to make it impregnable to the lure of power and personal ambition." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Guilliman was the hero the Imperium needed, but not the one it deserved... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Or instead of turning to Chaos, he simply settled for having a part in running the Imperium of Mankind. But then again, ten thousand years in the future, most of the Imperium doesn't even know what happened and the parts that do only have fragments of it, including the Space Marines themselves. So it would be easy to make just about anyone look like a "shining example" of heroism and perserverance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I think Sanguinuis and Dorn are the two least most likeky to turn.. They were both with the Emperor on the battle barge and for good reason. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I think Sanguinuis and Dorn are the two least most likeky to turn.. They were both with the Emperor on the battle barge and for good reason. Huh? Angel boy almost turned in "ftt", only sacrifice from other dude stopped him.... Also others weren't there because they were stopped on their way... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I'm surprised they didn't try to turn Corax. I mean his upbringing would have made him hate despots and it would have easily to turn the 'god want to be' (Horus words not mine) emperor into a tyrant like those that ruled Deliverance. Also he seemed to have been afraid that he could be like Curze, and its doubt like that can turn a Primarch. Maybe Horus just didn't think he could due to their relationship. Any back to the question, Dorn. I think he was absolutely devoted to the Emps. If the Emperor said he was getting married to an Eldar I bet Dorn would have gone with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Repeatedly picked unauthorised fights with his fellow Primarchs, delivered Magnus and the Thousand Sons to Horus's cause, and arrived at Terra too late to make any difference. With Loyalists like Russ, who needs Traitors? ;) Sanguinius wasn't about to turn traitor in Fear to Tread. He was going to his death, in the belief that it would save his Legion. There's no sense of him willingly betraying the Emperor, he was sacrificing himself. And there's no way to know how it would actually have played out - Fulgrim was able to shrug off daemonic possession eventually, and Sanguinius seems to me to have greater strength of character than Fulgrim did, so the Red Angel might have found him more than he was bargaining for. Certainly Lorgar didn't think there was any chance of their plan working. Ultimately, no Primarch was tested more severely, he remained loyal, and was the only Primarch to face Horus. The real answer has to be Horus, that's why the Heresy is such a tragedy. But I struggle to imagine how Ferrus could be corrupted. He never even stops to listen, he's already swinging at the first hint of disloyalty. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Of course I'm going to jump on the Ferrus bandwagon. He turned down his closest brother's pleas to turn -- and reading Fulgrim, I'd definitely say he was pleading -- on the spot with no hesitancy, no consideration of cost or benefit. He was so pissed about it that he literally disregarded Dorn's orders to wait for reinforcements before dropping onto Isstvan V, and we all know how that turned out. The ferocity of Ferrus' loyalty was such that he was a casualty of it as much as he was of the laer sword. That being said, I have to agree that there are other Primarchs who seemed equally incorruptible. Dorn and Guilliman, in particular, have always struck me as the stoically loyal types. Jonson, with all his secret-keeping and anti-social personality, always seemed the opposite to me; that is, I always thought he could have been easily corrupted had the traitors twisted the right knife. But then again, my opinion is informed by Astelan and his snarky comments. . . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 and Sanguinius seems to me to have greater strength of character than Fulgrim did, so the Red Angel might have found him more than he was bargaining for. Certainly The Red Angel is Angron. Most primarchs and legions could easily have turned if a god wished to. No legion could have made it through the violence the Death Guard suffered without turning. But yes, Horus, the best of all primarchs, by far, the pinacle of everything the emperor achieveved and the guy who made the golden age of the imperium possible. If he was forced to turn, then making other turn would be a piece of cake with the right tools. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 The Red Angel is Angron. Read Fear to Tread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 EDIT : Oh, the little baby daemon, ok. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 It's not a "take" on anything. The Warp entity involved in Fear to Tread explicitly claims that title, and basically says Angron can fight him for it if he doesn't like it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Dorn: The Emperor is keeping you on Terra because he doesn't trust you. And look how he trust Perturabo's legion with keeping the garrisons of the Imperium safe. You're just not appreciated. Russ: The Emperor is keeping that maleficarum Magnus around, and you know the Emperor is also a witch. Destroy the evil Magnus, your father will understand that it's for the best. Vulkan: (show Vulkan a picture of the Petioner''s City) See that? All those suffering people? And they live right outside their ruler's palace. Bet you just want to go to that planet and liberate them. Khan (KHAAAAAN!!!): Sadly, I know more about the missing primarchs than I do about this guy. Guilliman: You know how you like well ordered and competent civil government? Take a look at the statistics of your average hive city. I bet you could do better. Corax: You fought to liberate your people from off-world dictators who used them as slaves to produce raw materials. Take a look at this Administratum dataslate regarding tithe levels. Meet the old boss, same as the new boss, right? Bet you could do better. Sanguinius: The Emperor really doesn't like mutants, so you should really do something about the red thirst before people get too freaked out. Just sign here and we can get to work fixing things. Ferrus: You know the technology you love so much? Have you seen the derp heads at the Mechanicum? Those are the sorts of people that the Emperor is putting in charge of the advances that can make things better. Bet you could do a better job. Lion: You wanted to be Warmaster didn't you? Horus is good and all, but he's half politician, and we all know that politicians make horrible generals. That just shows that the Emperor isn't serious about winning the galaxy for humanity. He's just like those orders that didn't buy into your campaign to rid Caliban of the beasts. Bet you could do better. I'm not really buying Ferrus Manus turning down Fulgrim as proof he wasn't going to turn traitor. Fulgrim's offer was basically fifteen minutes of small talk followed by "We're going to rebel and overthrow the Emperor, you in?" I've heard of joke pickup lines that have a better chance of succeeding than that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270050-primarch-who-was-least-likey-to-be-corrupted/page/2/#findComment-3292642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.