Primarch who was least likey to be corrupted ?

[Unintentional Batman]

 

Also when you say Russ would be first to go - your PoV is black and white...

 

 

And where did I say "first to go"? Where?

 

I said that it's easiest to invent a fully plausible scenario where it happens to Russ. Cause that is what we should be doing, seeing how plausible it is to find situations where a loyalist primarch could fall. Not yell "but MY primarch cannot fall, like EVER!". I mean I play Ultras, and I am here mostly talking about situations where I could see Rob turn traitor (not necessarily Chaos, at least not directly). The Legatusian view that he's 100% without any faults would make him a much lesser character than when he is looked at as more flawed, more human character. 

 

We all know Russ is the Emperor's lap-dog in 40K proper, the "most loyal" one like a good doggie he is. But that doesn't change the fact that what was thought for Russ in Dornian Heresy alternate universe is  the most plausible of all plausible scenarios. Going over to Chaos doesn't need to be a choice of disloyalty, it's not a stretch to see Russ and the Rout go overboard with violence one day and notice they have accidentally khorned up when they are knee deep in the dead.

 

Anyway, I like the Wolves. They are a cool bunch, probably my favourite loyalist faction and I would play them if the Ultras weren't objectively better thanks to Ward. But Russ' fall is still the easiest for me to rationalize from all the loyalist primarchs. By far. If that offends your fanboyish view of things, then so be it.

[Wade Garrett]

While the Dornian Heresy is a plausible scenario, it's certainly not the only one that could send Russ and the Wolves tumbling into the Abyss.

 

Consider:

The Wolves see themselves as the Imperium's final weapon, the warriors who will go farther than any other, cross the lines others won't, and win the fights others can't. Sounds a bit like the Night Lords or World Eaters, doesn't it? And we know how those Legions turned out. Blah blah fight a monster, be a monster, look long and be looked at, etc.

 

Or suppose the Wolfen flaw had been more severe, like the Thousand Sons flesh change. Would Russ have stood idly by and watched his sons devolve to beasts, or would he have made use of any tool he could grasp to save them?

[Olis]

Exactly. Like I mentioned before, it depends on the situation and what knife is being twisted. Imho, no primarch was unturnable. Change the circumstances and for all we know, Angron could have turned out to be incredibly loyal. Konrad Curze could have turned out to be less nihilistic and Peturabo less jealous. 

[Peter the Hermit]

Can someone refresh me on Russ's role in Dornian heresy? I' mean source....

Also @Batman seems to me,  you are the only fanboy in this thread since you are speaking "our glorious primarch" and UM are better thanks to Ward,
while calling Russ a lapdog...

[daveNYC]

Roughly speaking:

1) Magnus doesn't speak in his defense at Nikea, instead he plays it safe and requests that he and his entire legion become soulbound to the Emperor (same thingie the Astropaths go through).

2) Magnus and crew are now considered pretty awesomely loyal at this point and there is no censure.  A custode is sent back to Prospero to keep an eye on things though.

3) Russ isn't a fan, and shows up to nuke the planet from orbit (it's the only way to be sure).

4) Magnus and crew actually mount an effective defense of the planet since Magnus isn't the guilt wracked loner that he was at the end of A Thousand Sons.

5) Wolves are getting slaughtered due to the Sons' mad psyker skillz.  Russ, in a rage at the psyker trickery, gets an offer he can't refuse from Khorne.

6) Now nearly immune to psyker powers, the Wolves mangle their way through Tizca, eventually Russ beats down on Magnus and only the intervention of the Custode allows Magnus to flee with his life.

 

There was one key change in Russ' early life.  They specifically say that when Russ was captured, his entire adopted wolf family is killed by Rune Priests (the Fenrisian non-Astarte kind, might have a different official name) using lightning.  This caused him to hate all psykers, even ones that use the natural cycles of Fenris (or whatever that drek was), and when he becomes the big cheese on Fenris he kills all the psykers.

 

That isn't entirely necessary for a similar situation to have played out though.  All you would need is someone dialing up the hate towards Magnus and you'd be good to go.

[Legatus]

@Peter the Hermit: He is not being serious. He doesn't really like the Ultramarines. Him pretending to do that is part of his trolling campaign. But I suppose that could confuse members who weren't aware of that.

[Unintentional Batman]

Trolling? I'm hurt. It's merely a gag I invented after I ran the Vulkan one to ground, all in good fun.

 

Peter: In one thread I painted my Alpha Legion armour blue...

[Peter the Hermit]

@DaveNYC - Huh? This is a fanfiction? It has too many holes...

-Magnus and Tzeench, bargain? Flesh change? Do you think Tzeech would go on idle while TS remain loyal....

-Magnus who is awesomely loyal doesn't go in the same sentence (you know thirst for knowlege)

-What evidence is there that Russ would go on Magnus after he kept his promise

-TS awesome psyker skills come frome Tzeench IIRC (you know - god mode without mutation),if Tzeench took back his gift  they can't use their awesome pp anymore, so (+) for the SW (-) for TS....

 

Now this on the bottom (russ and rune priest) is actually "can happen" thingy...

[godking]

beat me to the punch.

 

wait, i forgot the time when Russ started killing off his own officers when the Emperor recovered...wait, that was Angron.

 

I'm not seeing any real connection, other than their skill at close combat.

 

so, basically, you have no real proof for your assumptions. thats what i just read.

 

WLK

Russ next to Angron and Sanguinus is one of prime targets fto fall to Khorne under the right circumstances. Angron Fell Sanguinus almost fell Russ under the right circumstances could have fallen.

[godking]

Dorn: The Emperor is keeping you on Terra because he doesn't trust you.  And look how he trust Perturabo's legion with keeping the garrisons of the Imperium safe.  You're just not appreciated.

Russ: The Emperor is keeping that maleficarum Magnus around, and you know the Emperor is also a witch.  Destroy the evil Magnus, your father will understand that it's for the best.

Vulkan: (show Vulkan a picture of the Petioner''s City) See that?  All those suffering people?  And they live right outside their ruler's palace.  Bet you just want to go to that planet and liberate them.

Khan (KHAAAAAN!!!): Sadly, I know more about the missing primarchs than I do about this guy.

Guilliman: You know how you like well ordered and competent civil government?  Take a look at the statistics of your average hive city.  I bet you could do better.

Corax: You fought to liberate your people from off-world dictators who used them as slaves to produce raw materials.  Take a look at this Administratum dataslate regarding tithe levels.  Meet the old boss, same as the new boss, right?  Bet you could do better.

Sanguinius: The Emperor really doesn't like mutants, so you should really do something about the red thirst before people get too freaked out.  Just sign here and we can get to work fixing things.

Ferrus: You know the technology you love so much?  Have you seen the derp heads at the Mechanicum?  Those are the sorts of people that the Emperor is putting in charge of the advances that can make things better.  Bet you could do a better job.

Lion: You wanted to be Warmaster didn't you?  Horus is good and all, but he's half politician, and we all know that politicians make horrible generals.  That just shows that the Emperor isn't serious about winning the galaxy for humanity.  He's just like those orders that didn't buy into your campaign to rid Caliban of the beasts.  Bet you could do better.

 

I'm not really buying Ferrus Manus turning down Fulgrim as proof he wasn't going to turn traitor.  Fulgrim's offer was basically fifteen minutes of small talk followed by "We're going to rebel and overthrow the Emperor, you in?"  I've heard of joke pickup lines that have a better chance of succeeding than that.

Dorn: The Emperor is keeping you on Terra because he doesn't trust you. And look how he trust Perturabo's legion with keeping the garrisons of the Imperium safe. You're just not appreciated.

 

I dont see it happening.

 

Russ: The Emperor is keeping that maleficarum Magnus around, and you know the Emperor is also a witch. Destroy the evil Magnus, your father will understand that it's for the best. It would take more then that

 

Vulkan: (show Vulkan a picture of the Petioner''s City) See that? All those suffering people? And they live right outside their ruler's palace. Bet you just want to go to that planet and liberate them. Vulkan is caring but not naive lets not forget that Vulkan comes from a vulcanic deathworld.

 

Guilliman: You know how you like well ordered and competent civil government? Take a look at the statistics of your average hive city. I bet you could do better. It would take more then that

 

Corax: You fought to liberate your people from off-world dictators who used them as slaves to produce raw materials. Take a look at this Administratum dataslate regarding tithe levels. Meet the old boss, same as the new boss, right? Bet you could do better. They wher only just beginning to raise tithes during the horus herey i believe and besides that Corax and Horus never really got along.

 

Sanguinius: The Emperor really doesn't like mutants, so you should really do something about the red thirst before people get too freaked out. Just sign here and we can get to work fixing things. He almost fell but did'nt

 

Ferrus: You know the technology you love so much? Have you seen the derp heads at the Mechanicum? Those are the sorts of people that the Emperor is putting in charge of the advances that can make things better. Bet you could do a better job. If Ferrus fel it would be by working on his insecurities regarding his brother like Perturabo.

 

Lion: You wanted to be Warmaster didn't you? Horus is good and all, but he's half politician, and we all know that politicians make horrible generals. That just shows that the Emperor isn't serious about winning the galaxy for humanity. He's just like those orders that didn't buy into your campaign to rid Caliban of the beasts. Bet you could do better. I can easily see that happen under the right circumstances he is easily the most dishonest and unlikable of the primarchs that did not turn.

[Wade Garrett]

Where does this notion that the Thousand Sons got their psyker powers from Tzeencht come from? Atharva in Outcast Dead, Kalliston and Arvida in Rebirth were all tossing around some pretty serious mojo without swearing allegiance to the Changer of Ways or sprouting thirty new eyeballs.

 

Yeah, the Sons were prone to mutate, but using their powers was no more a guaranteed fall to Tzeencht than the Butcher's Nails were a sure way to turn Khornate.

[Wade Garrett]

I'll tell you how you turn Ferrous (if that note at the beginning of Wrath of Iron was really by him).

 

"Boy, those Marines of yours...slicing themselves apart to add machine bits..that's just wrong. And those arms of yours..creepy, aren't they? We can help with all that..just sign here, here, and here and that whole hatred of the flesh thing? Over. Done. Fuhgeddaboutit."

[Billuriye]

Russ next to Angron and Sanguinus is one of prime targets fto fall to Khorne under the right circumstances. Angron Fell Sanguinus almost fell Russ under the right circumstances could have fallen.

 

Actually Angron didn't fall. He was going pretty consistent in his decline until he was engineered to become a daemon prince by Lorgar. As for Sang, i doubt Khorne appealed him. He was only tempted by the prospect of saving his legion. Khorne sucks at seduction unfortunately. Only a mentally damaged Primarch would revel in pure bloodlust. 

[daveNYC]

@DaveNYC - Huh? This is a fanfiction? It has too many holes...

-Magnus and Tzeench, bargain? Flesh change? Do you think Tzeech would go on idle while TS remain loyal....

-Magnus who is awesomely loyal doesn't go in the same sentence (you know thirst for knowlege)

-What evidence is there that Russ would go on Magnus after he kept his promise

-TS awesome psyker skills come frome Tzeench IIRC (you know - god mode without mutation),if Tzeench took back his gift  they can't use their awesome pp anymore, so (+) for the SW (-) for TS....

 

Now this on the bottom (russ and rune priest) is actually "can happen" thingy...

 

Fanfic from within the Bolter and Chainsword community, no less.  Basically all the Primarchs switch sides, with Guilliman setting up Ultramar as a seperate, non-chaotic, faction from the Imperium.

 

They got rid of the Flesh Change.  The 1k Sons' geneseed still leaves the bearer vulnerable to mutation, but the whole instant spawnification thing is thrown out.  Which is nice, since it means we get to avoid asking why the Emperor just dumped off 1000+ rapidly mutating Astartes at Prospero and didn't ask any pointed questions when Magnus showed up later with what appeared to be stable geneseed.

 

Even in the canon timeline, there's no indication that the pre-fall Thousand Sons were tapping into Tzeench.  Only the highest ranked Sons had Tutelaries, and there's not much evidence that they are Tzeench alligned warp entities.  Though the lack of evidence could be just as planned.

[Peter the Hermit]

Where does this notion that the Thousand Sons got their psyker powers from Tzeencht come from? Atharva in Outcast Dead, Kalliston and Arvida in Rebirth were all tossing around some pretty serious mojo without swearing allegiance to the Changer of Ways or sprouting thirty new eyeballs.

 

Yeah, the Sons were prone to mutate, but using their powers was no more a guaranteed fall to Tzeencht than the Butcher's Nails were a sure way to turn Khornate.

Their legion was almost dead (you know they were down to 1000 and rapidly going low ) if Tzeench didn't intervene...

Also promises of power (no limit option - again),unlimited knowlege, ambition, hubris is one of Tzeenches traits....Also guys who were on Prospero did some godlike things - T'kar going like a rocket, that guy who boosted titan - and Magnus - you remeber that deamon who told him that his/their power was just borrowed...

[DarthMarko]

^ QFT +1

 

simple here is a Tzeench formula :

Bargain and your Downfall = Knowlege + Power + Hubris

simple

 

 

Also nice example on T'kar...Guy was like a God..then someone (Tzeech) typed in the console "GodMode_Off"

and T'kar was given 3 testiculos :-) and pp went to 0....he killed himself after....

[daveNYC]

You guys don't want characters, you want caricatures.

[Legatus]

I wanted legendary heroes of a long gone era, who are only mentioned in ancient texts. But BL had to ruin that, didn't they?

[DarthMarko]

I wanted legendary heroes of a long gone era, who are only mentioned in ancient texts. But BL had to ruin that, didn't they?

Man, totally agree with you (in amost every your post),but with this you erned a barrel of my homemade mjod...

[Billuriye]

I wanted legendary heroes of a long gone era, who are only mentioned in ancient texts. But BL had to ruin that, didn't they?

You have that in 40k. You can always ignore 30k stuff. You are already stuck in 2nd edition so that shouldn't be hard.

[Wade Garrett]

I wanted legendary heroes of a long gone era, who are only mentioned in ancient texts. But BL had to ruin that, didn't they?

Different strokes for different folks, but some of us rather like that Lorgar, Magnus Either al now have more than:

 

"I like war..AND AM EVIL!"

"I like magic..AND EVIL!"

"I..am..BATMAN! ALSO, EVIL!"

"I am really proud, and have a great idea! LET'S ALL BE EVIL TOGATHER, WITH ME IN CHARGE!"

"YAAAAAAAAY!"

[DarthMarko]

^so you are 4x evil and 4x a troll

 

Kidding a little...

[MetalKing1417]

Wow. quadruple post.

[Vesper]

You know, I forgive you, Wade.  I enjoy your posts.

But don't you dare posting five times the same post. Don't you dare.

 

Their legion was almost dead (you know they were down to 1000 and rapidly going low ) if Tzeench didn't intervene...

Also promises of power (no limit option - again),unlimited knowlege,
ambition, hubris is one of Tzeenches traits....Also guys who were on
Prospero did some godlike things - T'kar going like a rocket, that guy
who boosted titan - and Magnus - you remeber that deamon who told him
that his/their power was just borrowed...

Just like all psykers, basically. All psychic powers are related to the Warp.

[Wade Garrett]

Sorry, having issues with my connection.

Any way a mod can delete about 3 of those?