Primarch who was least likey to be corrupted ?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don't buy into the concept that every Primarch could have been turned... It certainly didn't happen and it's not like they didn't try.

[Blacksad]

Everyone knows Horus can't be seduced to the side of Chaos. He was killed, and replaced by Alpharius / Omegon. The heresy part of the Horus Heresy is everyone believing that the Warmaster could possibly turn his back on the Emperor, his Father.

 

And no, I'm not trolling. That'd be impossible, because I've used capitals where needed.

[DarthMarko]

Also this thread is really not cool, I mean ofc the fanbois will say their fav primarch would be the hardest to corrupt, and then insert some silly comment about him...

On the other side there are haters who will say that their target (least likeable) would be the first to go and sing the c-note.....

[Bigger-than-Jesus]

Define corruptible first. I mean, Night Haunter wasn't turned by any  Chaos god, and actually spat on their worship. He just took the oppurtunity to go a little off the rails anyway.

[daveNYC]

Define corruptible first. I mean, Night Haunter wasn't turned by any  Chaos god, and actually spat on their worship. He just took the oppurtunity to go a little off the rails anyway.

 

 

AFAIK, only Lorgar, Fulgrim, Horus, and Magnus went over to team chaos initially.  So we're not just talking about falling for chaos, we're talking about turning against the Imperium.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

I Lion El'Jonson Caliban

Dark Angels

Lion El would be in the middle of the pac for me.   There seems to be

something off with the guy.   Too many loose ends to believe he would be

Loyal with out question.  His Home world was a big drag on his loyalty

threshold.  Being raised by monsters did not help. (5.5)

 

 

 

 

III Fulgrim Chemos

Emperor's Children

Fulgrim's persuit of perfection was a fail from the start.   Easy target for Slanesh.  Any Legion that let Eidolon

get to the top has issues.  Interesting that the Emperor trusted them

so much as to bestow upon them his personal badge... (4.0)

 

 

 

 

IV Perturabo Olympia Iron Warriors

Perturabo did not seem to be a hard sell.  He seems to have had a bone to pick

for a long time.  He killed his home world.  Nuff said.  (2.0)

 

 

 

 

V Jaghatai Khan Mundus Planus White Scars

The Khan is a mystery to me.  Horus seems to have thought he could get the

Scars loyalty, not good. They have had Traitors in their ranks but seem

to have a cleaner record them most.  (7.0)

 

 

 

 

VI Leman Russ Fenris Space Wolves

You may question Russ's Morals but not his Loyalty to the all Father. The

only crack in the amour is the Ware wolf thing.  To me that = curse.  

(9.0)

 

 

 

 

VII Rogal Dorn Inwit Imperial Fists

Dorn ,on the surface, seems to be the shining yellow light of loyalty. 

I have seen some things that give me pause though.  Dorn sent the Night

Lords to Isstavan V after he knew the Legion was not to be trusted.  He

also was running double agents with/ against Horus without telling the

Custoeds.  Might be a case of the Bright light casting Dark shadow,

(8.0)

 

 

 

 

VIII Konrad Curze/Night Haunter Nostramo Night Lords

Being right dose not excuse doing wrong.  They killed their Home world and

perfected Terror as a weapon.  Letting murderers and rapers in did not

help.  (2.0)

 

 

 

 

IX Sanguinius Baal Blood Angels

If you have to be a mutie, Angel is the way to go.  The Black rage/ Vamp curse is a big drag.  (8.0)

 

 

 

X Ferrus Manus Medusa Iron Hands

I don't like that Horus and Fulgrim thought Manus could be corrupted. 

Fulgrim botched that deal badly.  I wonder if they had tried to use his

connection to Mars against him, would he have been more persuadable. 

Letting his anger get the best of him is troubling.   Rushing to fight

Horus was just stupid.  (8.0)

 

 

 

 

XII Angron Unknown World Eaters

The Butchers Nails were all that matters,  Cant have Loyalty with out the ability to Reason. Home wold murderer  ect.. (2.5)

 

 

 

 

XIII Roboute Guilliman Macragge Ultramarines

Courage and Honer.... sounds good.  Only real question i have is why was

Guilliman so quick to believe the Emperor was dead?  Much as i hate it

.. (9.0)

 

 

 

XIV Mortarion Barbarus Death Guard  

Just like Perturabo, Mortarion did not go to the dark side kicking and screaming.  Unlike

the Iron Warrior, he did not seem to have a reason to turn. (5.0)

 

 

 

XV Magnus the Red Prospero Thousand Sons

Dealing with Deamons is /bad/ MmmmKay!  Magnus took the search for knowlege tooooo far.  Ignoring the Edict of Nikaea was the final straw.  (6.5)

 

 

 

XVI Horus Lupercal Cthonia Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus

Horus was willing to do ANY thing to get the job done and be the "best". 

I think he was dabbling in cloning and that is a red flag for evil,  A

bit too ruthless to end up a good guy.  Recruiting Hive gang scum did

not help. (7.0)

 

 

 

XVII Lorgar Aurelian Colchis Word Bearers

Aurelian was the runt.  And Worse then that he was a religious fanatic.  Just not

enough /bad/ things to say about theses guys. (0.5)

 

 

 

 

XVIII Vulkan Nocturne Salamanders

Vulkan seems to be the Nice guy.  The Saly's have had their bad apples but

seem to be un spoiled.  Their only down side may be in the Promethean Cult.  They might be vulnerable like the Word Bearers.  (8.5)

 

 

 

 

XIX Corvus Corax Deliverance Raven Guard

Corax had a rough upbringing like many who turned bad.  Unlike any of them

though he seems to have Loyalty beyond question.  No Legion lost or

sacrificed more during the Horus Heresy.  I will call Corax reckless

though, for his gene manipulation to get back into the game.  (9.5)

 

 

 

 

XX Alpharius Omegon Unknown Alpha Legion

They are either the Most loyal or the most Vile Legion.  Take the average. (5.0)

[Olis]

I take it those numbers are the measure of loyalty, Lorne? They seem quite arbitrary and in a couple of cases, to me, counter-intuitive. :huh:

[Billuriye]

I don't buy into the concept that every Primarch could have been turned... It certainly didn't happen and it's not like they didn't try.

They failed to cage Lion even though they targeted him specifically. So you are right. But there is no such thing as immunity to Chaos. That's like immunity to lava or electricity.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

I don't buy into the concept that every Primarch could have been turned... It certainly didn't happen and it's not like they didn't try.

They failed to cage Lion even though they targeted him specifically. So you are right. But there is no such thing as immunity to Chaos. That's like immunity to lava or electricity.

 

Hogwash and poppycock.  It's called the Pariah Gene, and it metaphysically and physically repels psykers and daemons since they cast no -- or, if strong enough, a negative -- shadow in the warp.  Personally, I always thought of an Untouchable Primarch and his entire Legion of Untouchables being an awesome idea.  It also makes sense for why he and his men would have been purged; it's hard to like someone, to be proud of them and close to them, when just being in the same room can make you sick to your stomach.

[Billuriye]

 

 

Hogwash and poppycock.  It's called the Pariah Gene, and it metaphysically and physically repels psykers and daemons since they cast no -- or, if strong enough, a negative -- shadow in the warp.  Personally, I always thought of an Untouchable Primarch and his entire Legion of Untouchables being an awesome idea.  It also makes sense for why he and his men would have been purged; it's hard to like someone, to be proud of them and close to them, when just being in the same room can make you sick to your stomach.

I didn't mean like that. Willpower can counter a little bit of warp let alone Pariah gene. What i meant was the power that Chaos Gods possess. 

[Chaplain ChonkE]

Even the Pariah gene would not make a Primarch immune to thoughts and actions of rebellion. As stated above, many of the Primarchs did not fall to Chaos but either turned renegade or outright rebelled against the tyrannical oppression/repression of the Emperor. A few accepted Chaos after the fact sure but it seems a natural road to take to have an ally in the warp against the Imperial machine. A Legion of Untouchables would be awesome though!

 

Wade: I reported a few of your posts to the Mods. They usually get on that pretty quickly if you hit the report button.

 

Marko Marko Marko: You sir make me want to put my all metal Wolf army on Ebay! You dont happen to paint your Wolves Wardian Blue and Gold by chance instead of Frost Blue and Yellow? :D

[Vesper]

Even the Pariah gene would not make a Primarch immune to thoughts and actions of rebellion.

Just like the Grey Sensei.

Which is the proof that you can join Chaos by belief. Even when you're absolutly immune to it.

[Wade Garrett]

You know, I've always been disappointed in the fan made alternate Heresies that have Guilliman and the Ultramarines as either one of the godless Chaos Undivided Legions or Tau hugging secessionists (squints at Dornian Heresy.)

We are, after all, speaking of the man/demigod who devoted a great deal of his transhuman lifespan to writing a big book on the most efficient and proper way for armies to kill people and break things, a "Complete Idiot's Guide to WAR!" if you will.

 

 

There is no victory without struggle.

I first heard this remark as a boy on Maccrage, but only now do I feel that I truly understand its meaning.

Without strife, without obstacles, the human spirit stagnates, softens, and eventually, it dies.

In violence, in war...it is only then that mankind's capacity for courage, obedience, for the thousand other virtues that make our us great, only in war may they be expressed to their fullest extent.

Peace is anathema to humanity's survival. It is only in war that we advance, only by war that we conquer, and only through war that we shall survive.

So, then. Let there be war. A war against all a thousand foes, a war that will burn the stars themselves! A war to fuel mankind's ascension!

What I do now is done not out of some beserk fury or shrieking madness...it is the salvation of the human race!

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! LET THE GALAXY BURN!

 

attributed to the Primarch Roboute Guilliman prior to the Scouring of Ultramar

[DarthMarko]

Even the Pariah gene would not make a Primarch immune to thoughts and actions of rebellion. As stated above, many of the Primarchs did not fall to Chaos but either turned renegade or outright rebelled against the tyrannical oppression/repression of the Emperor. A few accepted Chaos after the fact sure but it seems a natural road to take to have an ally in the warp against the Imperial machine. A Legion of Untouchables would be awesome though!

Wade: I reported a few of your posts to the Mods. They usually get on that pretty quickly if you hit the report button.

Marko Marko Marko: You sir make me want to put my all metal Wolf army on Ebay! You dont happen to paint your Wolves Wardian Blue and Gold by chance instead of Frost Blue and Yellow?

Why do you say that? I' mean I simply said that people aren't objective and we can't know 4sure which one IS THE HARDEST TO CORRUPT...

If you ask me they all were tested and passed the tests with A+ during and after heresy...

[Saul Invictus]

I I think when it comes to Primarch corruptibility, like people have said, you have to look at each one's weaknesses. Not the obvious ones, but the more subtle ones, my favourite being Guilliman.

Everyone calls arrogance, but that's not it. He wanted to rule, not in obvious way, but have everything done his way. He was building his own empire, everyone knows that, but he never states that he's going to rule over it. He tells his Legion that they'll each be the ruler of a world after the Crusade, he appoints his Tetrarchs(sp?) to rule over areas of Ultramar. But who do they answer to? Not the Emperor, but technically not Guilliman either.

Fast forward to the Scouring and the publication of the Codex Astartes. Guilliman is Lord Commander of the Imperium, full control over all armed forces, the High Lords are his men (as in allegiance, not Ultramarines), he has the Imperium under his control, he could take full command. Instead he publishes the Codex, sets up the High Lords in charge and ensures that no one could take control again, whilst still having so great an influence that if he ever did say "Sorry guys, my bad, you do need me after all." There would be little said against him, because hey, he just saved the Imperium right? What could he do if really did take control?

Guilliman is a politician, the best politician, he wants to rule, but he's patient. He had everything under his control, without anyone really knowing it, then set it up so that no one else could ever lay claim to the title without being declared an Arch Traitor. He's a snake in the grass, and I fully believe that's why he wasn't named Warmaster, the Emperor didn't trust him with that much power. And of all the Primarchs to be put on the council after the War Council (can't remember the name), Guilliman would make the most sense, but he wasn't put on it, even though he was barely making war anymore. Emperor didn't trust him there. 
If Chaos had gone to Guilliman not Horus, things would have happened the same way.

​That's my opinion anyway, obviously, everyone has different interpretations, but it shows that no Primarch is fully incorruptible, there are ways around it, they all have flaws and weaknesses, some just need a bit more reading between the lines (making up a story). But yeah, that's why Guilliman isn't incorruptible, so you Guilliman fan boys can cool it for now, there are ways that they all could have gone.

[Billuriye]

I don't think Guilliman could take full control of after Heresy Imperium even if he did want to. There were still primarchs around.

[Saul Invictus]

He had the support of some of them though in regards to the Codex, I know he had Corax at least. And they didn't kick up much of a fuss when he took the title of Lord Commander of the Imperium. He almost started another civil war just to get his own way, with supporters on both sides, I don't think it's too much of a push to say that he'd have some support. But like I said, that's just my opinion of how it could have gone down.

[Legatus]

Guilliman is so cunning that in the two instances he was given overall rule (first on Macragge, then of the Imperial military) he did not even have to make any effort to get it. Both times it just sort of fell into his lap. And his foresight planning for domination was so underhanded that after he had control over the Imperial Military, he "seemingly" gave up that command and instead only led a single Space Marines Chapter for the remaining hundred years of his life. Talk about sneaky. His come back as overall ruler was only thwarted because he was mortally wounded by Fulgrim before he could enact his coup.

[Veteran Sergeant]

I don't think Guilliman could take full control of after Heresy Imperium even if he did want to. There were still primarchs around.

He basically did take control of the Imperium, and none of the primarchs seemed to do anything about it other than bellyache that he split up their Legions.  Honestly, of the surviving primarchs, none of them would have had any interest in being in charge, aside from maybe Dorn.

 

For the most part, it seems likely that the other primarchs would have been like "Better him than me".  After all, the only truly vehement dissenting voice would have been Lionel, and he was out of commission.  Khaaaaannnn, Corax, Vulkan, not the types to object, from what we've seen.  And Russ was not the leadership type.  He just wanted to stomp the enemies of the Imperium.  The primarchs probably would have recognized that somebody needed to lead the Imperium if the Emperor was out of commission.

 

 

Ultimately, it's why I don't buy most of the theories about Guilliman being corrupted.  His resistance to the call of Chaos was that he saw everything as duty.  It's the reason he chastised Alpharius. He didn't think his way of fighting was better than Alpharius's.  He saw that it was more efficient, and the Emperor had charged the Legions with bring the galaxy into control as efficiently as possible.  It's the reason he destroyed Monarchia.  The Emperor told him to, and it was his duty to obey.  Guilliman is the primarch embodiment of the classic Roman virtues.

 

Auctoritas: "Spiritual Authority" The sense of one's social standing, built up through experience, Pietas, and Industria.

Comitas: "Humor" Ease of manner, courtesy, openness, and friendliness.

Clementia: "Mercy" Mildness and gentleness.

Dignitas: "Dignity" A sense of self-worth, personal pride.

Firmitas: "Tenacity" Strength of mind, the ability to stick to one's purpose.

Frugalitas: "Frugalness" Economy and simplicity of style, without being miserly.

Gravitas: "Gravity" A sense of the importance of the matter at hand, responsibility and earnestness.

Honestas: "Respectibility" The image that one presents as a respectable member of society.

Humanitas: "Humanity" Refinement, civilization, learning, and being cultured.

Industria: "Industriousness" Hard work.

Pietas: "Dutifulness" More than religious piety; a respect for the natural order socially, politically, and religiously. Includes the ideas of patriotism and devotion to others.

Prudentia: "Prudence" Foresight, wisdom, and personal discretion.

Salubritas: "Wholesomeness" Health and cleanliness.

Severitas: "Sternness" Gravity, self-control.

Veritas: "Truthfulness" Honesty in dealing with others.

 

I think the only one you can suggest might not apply is Comitas, but, realistically, we don't know that it doesn't.  Guilliman is by far one of the least characterized of the primarchs.  And his sense of humor seems to be somewhat present in KNF in the way he speaks to the one Marine who was being censured and in things he says to his commanders prior to the battle.

 

As I've said many times in the past, Guilliman was The Good Son.  He did what he was told, and when he didn't have orders (following the Heresy), he did what he thought was his duty.  Defeat the rebellion (Scouring), put the Imperium back together (forming the High Lords), remove as much of the threat as possible (split the Legions), go back to fighting (retire as High Commander and go back to leading the Ultramarines).  There's very little indication, put in print thus far, that he was ever scheming or plotting, or jealous, or arrogant, or anything.  He's a fascinating character in that regard, even if it can make him seem a little bland compared to the more emotional, fiery primarchs. 

 

He didn't "almost start a Civil War" with Dorn over the Codex.  He already had most of the Imperium.  Dorn's legion was weakened, and Guilliman controlled well over half (probably more than 2/3rds) of the Space Marines, and probably an even higher percentage of the Imperial fleet and Army.  That incident was about Dorn's resistance to the division of the Legions, and not about Guilliman's assertion of authority.  We can speculate that it was Guilliman's understanding that he still controlled the 2nd Founding Ultramarines, but that's all it is, speculation.  There's no actual basis for that speculation.  And, ultimately, it doesn't jive with everything else Guilliman ever did.  We can say he "could have", but what did he do prior that suggests that?  He made no complaints about being passed over for Warmaster.  He made no complaints about divvying up his empire.  Horus was Warmaster because he was First.  Because he was closest to the Emperor.  Because he was charismatic and a leader.  Guilliman always did what he was told, and following Horus as Warmaster would have been just another in a long line of things the Emperor told him to do and he did. 

[Wade Garrett]

I agree that canonical Rob is as close as you're going to get to a white hat in the grim darkness of the far future.

 

The Roman virtues thing...that's sort of why I like the idea of War obsessed Khorne worshipping Ultramarines who see Virtus as the end all be all. The canonl Men of Maccrage embody all the good traits of historical Rome, I'd like to see a take on them using Rome's dark side.

[Brother Ambroz]

VIII Konrad Curze/Night Haunter Nostramo Night Lords

Being right dose not excuse doing wrong. They killed their Home world and

perfected Terror as a weapon. Letting murderers and rapers in did not

help. (2.0)

 

 

XII Angron Unknown World Eaters

The Butchers Nails were all that matters, Cant have Loyalty with out the ability to Reason. Home wold murderer ect.. (2.5)

 

 

XIV Mortarion Barbarus Death Guard

Just like Perturabo, Mortarion did not go to the dark side kicking and screaming. Unlike

the Iron Warrior, he did not seem to have a reason to turn. (5.0)

 

 

XVI Horus Lupercal Cthonia Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus

Horus was willing to do ANY thing to get the job done and be the "best".

I think he was dabbling in cloning and that is a red flag for evil, A

bit too ruthless to end up a good guy. Recruiting Hive gang scum did

not help. (7.0)

1. With the Night Lords "doing right is no excuse" tell that to the Emperor during his genocides.

 

2. What homeworld did Angron destroy? He didn't have one.

 

3. Mortarion turned to Nurgle because Nurgle tortured him with disease until he gave in.

 

4. Where is this cloning bit? The only thing about cloning was after his death and that was Fabius Bile not the Black Legion/Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus. Also Hive gang scum?

[Veteran Sergeant]

I agree that canonical Rob is as close as you're going to get to a white hat in the grim darkness of the far future.

 

The Roman virtues thing...that's sort of why I like the idea of War obsessed Khorne worshipping Ultramarines who see Virtus as the end all be all. The canonl Men of Maccrage embody all the good traits of historical Rome, I'd like to see a take on them using Rome's dark side.

Well, I think I'd call him a "gray hat" since while he did do everything he was told, it was also without question, lol.  So it included genocide of alien species, and leveling an entire planet (even if he did try to evacuate all the people first), etc.  So he's not necessarily a "good guy", though in the muddled world of 40K, the only primarch who might be a lighter shade of gray would be Vulkan.  He was just ridiculously unlikely to be swayed by Chaos because they really had nothing that they could offer a guy like him.  

 

The Primarchs who turned had something they wanted that they weren't getting, for the most part Fulgrim wanted perfection.  Lorgar wanted acceptance.  Horus wanted security.  Alpharius (historically. Who knows what he wants now, lol) wanted to test himself and his ways of fighting.  Perturabo wanted to be written about in 2nd-4th Editions.  

 

Guilliman just didn't have anything to want.  He had power.  He had success.  He had acceptance.  He had the approval of his Dad.  He wasn't concerned about being the best.  He looked how he could be the best, and then figured out how to achieve those goals.   He gets a lot of crap for that, saying he has no flaws.  It's not true.  His flaws just weren't the kinds that turn you to Chaos, lol.  Sanguinius is the only character primarch with no flaws, lol.  He just had the good common sense to die tragically, so everyone forgives him for it.

[Veteran Sergeant]

 

VIII Konrad Curze/Night Haunter Nostramo Night Lords

Being right dose not excuse doing wrong. They killed their Home world and

perfected Terror as a weapon. Letting murderers and rapers in did not

help. (2.0)

 

 

XII Angron Unknown World Eaters

The Butchers Nails were all that matters, Cant have Loyalty with out the ability to Reason. Home wold murderer ect.. (2.5)

 

 

XIV Mortarion Barbarus Death Guard

Just like Perturabo, Mortarion did not go to the dark side kicking and screaming. Unlike

the Iron Warrior, he did not seem to have a reason to turn. (5.0)

 

 

XVI Horus Lupercal Cthonia Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus

Horus was willing to do ANY thing to get the job done and be the "best".

I think he was dabbling in cloning and that is a red flag for evil, A

bit too ruthless to end up a good guy. Recruiting Hive gang scum did

not help. (7.0)

 

2. What homeworld did Angron destroy? He didn't have one.

If you haven't read Betrayer yet,

Angron goes back to the planet where he was a slave and gladiator and murderizes it

.  

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

and "Fear to Tread" humanizes Sangy a good bit. saying he has no flaws is not exaclty accurate nowadays.

 

WLK

[Brother Ambroz]

Vet Sergeant, nope I haven't still waiting for it to get to the store here.