Hamertime95 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Hey guys Been a long time reader on the site and have just decided to get back into the hobby after being out for sometime, and reading some of the other posts I have been wanting to create my own Chapter. With the release of the new Dark Angels models I have finally wanted to create a force allying them with my Blood angels as my two favorite Chapters. However I kinda want to paint them as one Chapter force with small trims or badges to tell which unit is in which codex, however with my Chapter I wanted to make I love the concepts of both armies and am wondering how best to combined them two in the fluff of my army. Obviously the combinding geneseed idea is frowned upon and not a direction I want to go down so I was wondering what you guys suggest for combinding the two into the fluff of my chapter. This is my first post so if Ive done anything wrong please let me know :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzekyleVIII Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Deathwatch :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Atticus Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Create a successor Chapter to the Blood Angels. Paint the Dark Angels with a different company trim, so you know who the Allied force using C:DA is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaplainMathreyn Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 A Crusade, or something akin to that, would certainly work. Space Marines, in their role as "Knights in Spaaaaaace!" would certainly band together, from different Chapters to kill-niliate a specific threat in the Imperium. Come up with a special little 'Crusade badge' you can put on each model, to show their general unity of purpose, before the crusade ends, and they all go their seperate ways. In general, the Blood Angels' are pretty well stayed away from when it comes to their genes; That something is very Wrong with it is pretty known. and there are other, more 'safe' genes to use available... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messor Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Create a successor Chapter to the Blood Angels. Paint the Dark Angels with a different company trim, so you know who the Allied force using C:DA is. I think this is your best option. Since you'll have to account for Black Rage, it'll be easier to make them BA successors than to justify that same behavior in a DA successor. Its possible, but it'd be more complicated. From there its easier to explain the DA aspects of the force which are mostly limited to models instead of rules(may not even be necessary in the article). Whether they found STCs that allowed them to build Dreadnoughts startlingly similar to the Mortis Pattern, or flyers in the class of the Dark Talon, or they campaigned alongside a DA successor who shared the knowledge of this tech in exchange for Lucifer engine schematics or as a reward/token of gratitude for saving an allied company. It all works both ways though, and the options are pretty unlimited. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Crusade seems the safest (i.e. least confusing to observers) method, IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Okay, generally mixed gene-seed (or mixed themes) is a bad idea. Why? Because of the disparate elements involved. The two components (doesn't matter from where exactly) have a distinct character, so distinct in fact that trying to mix and match requires a degree of eloquence and innovation. Not everyone can do that. Few can, in fact. So, what to do? Well, if you are definitely set on mixing gene-seed then I think you can go down one of two routes (besides utilising the Deathwatch idea that Ezekyle mentioned and the Crusade army idea put forth by Mathreyn): 1) Identify the themes involved in the armies you wish to mix and begin to weed out what you deem incompatible and then move on from there, or 2) Create an entirely new theme that hints at traits from the parent sources. I, personally, prefer the Crusade army idea. Granted you may have to paint two (or more) separate paint schemes and not go the DIY route but it is the one that is the easiest to implement and potentially be the least controversial idea of the lot, fluff-wise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 It's not nearly as complicated as you might think. Remember, aside from the Blood Angels gene seed making them all angry, there's very little about gene seed that influences how a chapter will fight or behave. The Aurora Chapter loves to be all tanky, but they didn't get that from the Ultramarines. The Mantis Warriors are successors of the White Scars, but they seem to have no great affection for bikes, speeders and sweet mustaches. Give than you're using Blood Angels as your main force, if you want to stick as "fluffy" as possible, I'd make them Blood Angels successors. it is true that the Blood Angels have a fairly low percentage of successors due their being all Black Ragey, but whatever, it's your chapter. If there were "rules", then most DIY chapters would have to be Ultramarines, lol. On the other hand, nothing stops you from choosing a chapter like the Ultramarines. Maybe your Ultramarines successors are a bit angry and vicious. After all, the Mortifcators are a Second Founding chapter, which means their original Marines were Ultramarines, but after 10,000 years, they've slowly but surely drifted back towards some of the culture of their home world. Does it make too much sense, since the average Marine recruit would be separated from his native culture around 6-8 years old, and thus be limited in how much of it he would be tied to, but hey. 40K. Though, again, based on your post, I think the above suggestion of making them Blood Angels successors, and just having them dress in hoodie bathrobes from time to time ought to work just fine to explain the Dark Angels models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamertime95 Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Cheers guys thats alot of help :) just saying I really DONT want to go down the geneseed mixing business :) Anyway kinda want to contiue with the DIY idea and really want to implement the knight concepts as well as combinding Ravenwing knights and new flyers with the Blood angels as I like the theme of many fast hit and run tactics amongst the chapter and a strong airforce :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Going with a Crusade lets you have TWO DIY chapters... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Going with a Crusade lets you have TWO DIY chapters... Or more. Fair point, Octavulg. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamertime95 Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Thats a good point as I actually may find it hard to incorperate all the themes I want to be honest :) Also the death company arent a huge must in my army as im not sure I would want them but Sanguinary Guard are my favrorite models and are a must in my army so I think it would be hard not to incorperate Blood Angels in my story :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messor Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 And the more the merrier. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaplainMathreyn Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Aren't the Dark Angels usually pretty reclusive, and picky, over who'd they fight beside, though? I know they've refused to fight beside, like the Flesh Tearers (I think?)... . or someone, for rumors of barbarity/various un-Space Marinelike behavior... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamertime95 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 Thinking about the idea of a joint fleet/ crusade of Blood and Dark angel ships being ambushed on route by demons and chaos marines and the few survivours of both Chapters banding together after landing on a nearby planet, (later to be homeworld) for years they would battle together until they could send word to the rest of the Imperium, this would keep their knightly crusade values, establish a homeworld ( which i personely would want) as well as give a connection betwean the two chapters. What are your guys thoughts? Plausible and how would the Inquisition and Lords of Terror take it if they then wanted to form a chapter? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Thinking about the idea of a joint fleet/ crusade of Blood and Dark angel ships being ambushed on route by demons and chaos marines and the few survivours of both Chapters banding together after landing on a nearby planet, (later to be homeworld) for years they would battle together until they could send word to the rest of the Imperium, this would keep their knightly crusade values, establish a homeworld ( which i personely would want) as well as give a connection betwean the two chapters. What are your guys thoughts? Plausible and how would the Inquisition and Lords of Terror take it if they then wanted to form a chapter? I don't think this is very plausible, tbh. The two groups would not simply just start a new chapter as they would have no remit to do so. That and the fact that the two groups' heritage, genes and traditions would likely not be compatible and therefore not be conducive for creating a chapter in such a circumstance. In all likelihood both groups would remain separately homogeneous in regards to their organisation and wouldn't combine at all in the way you suggest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 It is rather strange for me to say, but I think the fluff needs to come second here. Reading your original post, it seems like you have already got some Blood Angels painted, is this correct? If so, it becomes a question of how to integrate the Dark Angel models with your existing force. From a gaming point of view, I would suggest you need something quite distinctive between the two forces if they are to be played from two codices in the same allied army. If you look across the table and see two units painted in the same colours, you will expect them to be following the same rules.With all of that above, I would suggest following the crusade idea. An often forgotten trick by DIYers is that your army can be representing your force at one instance in time - almost like a football team pre-season photo. I remember in picture in one of the old Guard codices that had an entire army - and the blurb talking about the army in a single instance. Your force could simply represent a Blood Angel contingent that is part of the same crusade as another force. Like others have said, come up with a crusade/campaign badge and they will all link together.Finally, it is always a strong suggestion that with DIY chapters/forces you keep away from bringing in the GW chapters - especially the big boys. It is always easier to play with a little heard of chapter over one of the big forces in the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamertime95 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 I actually used to have a blood angels force but am starting completely from scratch. I thought it would probably not work in the fluff so I wanted to see if I can implement the dark angel attributes themes and units into a blood angels successor or vice versa? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3291859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Integrating the theme of one into the other could be neat - a DA successor that succumbed to a berserker rage because of their guilt over the Fallen, or a BA successor that tried to keep their Flaw a secret would both be kind of neat. However, as others have said, having two armies with the same models will be confusing for opponents. Two schemes would really be a lot clearer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3292049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deffrolla Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 If you're only interested in playing them "as BA and DA" then just go with separate Companies. 1st = BA, 2nd = Ravenwing, 3rd = Deathwing, 4th = Black Templars, 5th=Plain Codex, 6th = Space Wolves. In terms of fluff it's just a different philosophy or a particular specialisation for each Company. Apart from the Ravenwing/Deathwing mix that I believe would be illegal you can field any 2 Companies and play them as allies with the rules of your choice as long as they look different (and the armour trimmings would be fine for that). Of course, you could have one Company as Deathwing AND Ravenwing if you go with the philosophy of fast attack backed with heavy hitting termies to follow up when the teleport homer has been deployed. My son uses his Dragon Guard in this way and has no problems identifying the "red rims are Space Wolves, and the black rims are BT" or whatever combination he wants. If you have a lot of models, and who doesn't?, then you will want to be able to use them all at some time or another, and you'll want to get a bit of gameplay variety out of them too, I'd imagine. With a bit of thought you can use the same models to "act like" different armies with just a few special models (like the super superior mega Space Wolves maniac squads with a million weapon choices everybody loves so much or the strange golden flying fellow) to take advantage of the fun specific codex rules. Please be kind when you explain that I totally misunderstood what you were after :-) Paul Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3292624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skylar D'Forge Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I think I massively important thing to remember is that they are YOUR models, YOU paid for them, If you want the fluff for it then you make it! But in the actual fluff you could always say that there is a chapter with 'two' Individual genesedes. Thus solving the problem of having a chapter with 'mixed' genesedes! (but you also now have to think of why the High lord of Terra world sanction the use of two rather then one) Also From a Gaming point of view you can always just play from one codex? Just because you fluff says they are a mix doesn't dictate that you have to use two individual codex's! BUT if you want to use two different sets of rule and the same paint scheme, Paint the bottoms of the bases different colours for each chapter then agree with the other player which miniatures are which, As long as there not 12 or something they will more then likely be okay with this! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3294953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 There is exactly zero instances of a chapter being created from two gene-seeds from separate heritage. There is no precedent and no rational reason to do so. Also, the assumption that someone would only disagree with a mixed codex army (outside of the allies system) is if they were twelve isn't remotely correct - I would not play such an army, I would prefer to fight an army based on a single codex rather than face a synergised cherry picked list (again, if this was outside the allies system). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3294963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen_2 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Well why don't you list what you like from both and find a way to combine them? From what you said it seems that you aren't too much a fan of the Blood Angels lore and really are in for the models. In that case switching in is pretty easy when you make a DIY chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3294979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skylar D'Forge Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Aye! Sorry I meant two different codex's following the Allies rule! I should have made that clearer! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3295030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamertime95 Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 I do actually love the BA lore and the DA lore because they are so different :) but I just doubt I would be fielding Death company on the field :) Ive decided to create two separate successor chapter of the twos angels and eventually have them join forces once being declared renegade despite their protests. I've decided that they have banded together to survive and have repainted their armour to symbolise their union but to honour their heritage both armies have kept the trims of their original chapter :) what do you guys think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270133-how-to-mix-two-chapter-ideas/#findComment-3295228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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