Alternative Azrael

[Phoebus]

Right off the bat, we're obviously talking about something that wouldn't be tournament legal. It's purely something I'm tossing around for a Successor Chapter... largely because I hate the idea of each every Chapter descended from the Dark Angels having the same exact Supreme Grand Master, Master of the Deathwing, Master of the Ravenwing, etc. So, with that in mind...

 

My fluff focuses on a Chapter Master who arrives by way of Tactical Dreadnought Armour, Teleport Homer, and the Deathwing Assault rule. What additional point cost or point deduction would you recommend for such an "Azrael"? Looking at the various item prices from the Chapter Master entry in Codex: Space Marines, I'd say TDA alone should cost roughly 5pts more than Artificer Armour. But how does the FNP of Azrael's armour play into that? And how much more do you think the homer and the Deathwing Assault rule should at do the total points cost?

[IndigoJack]

I'd say start with Belial as a base, since he has TDA, DW assault, and a teleport homer.

[Phoebus]

The problem with that is that Belial is a different character with different weapons and different abilities. It's probably a bigger debate to figure out the point value of unlocking DW and RW as opposed to TDA vs artificer armor with FNP. See what I mean?

[Harleqvin]

I get ya. but it's kinda hard as the three guys who unlock things all have different abilities and trying to deduce which one is what points will be hard. I wish you luck on this. I suppose you could figure the cost of TDA. And you could subtract the cost of a Company master from Belial and then cut the cost of TDA from that and see what you have left and then figure from there.

 

Azrael though his Artificer armor grants Feel No Pain 6+ so I don't klnow how you would figure the cost of his Artificer armor to take off to give him TDA....

[Phoebus]

Well, where the price change from Artificer Armour to Tactical Dreadnought Armour is concerned, see above.  Feel No Pain, though?  I guess I'll have to look and see if there is any model/character/whatever that is vanilla EXCEPT for Feel No Pain.  There might lie my answer...

[[TA]Typher]

Are you wanting to use Azrael's stat line? If so I'd think you'd have to use the same base size.

[Phoebus]

I don't follow. I'm not so much worried about the stat line as I am at what functionally makes Azrael the Chapter Master: the fact that he can unlock DW and RW. I'm not interested in having a direct clone of Azrael, though, and thus am leaning toward an equivalent character in TDA. Recognizing he wouldn't be tournament legal, I'm still interested in proposing a fair point value for him.

 

I hope that was more clear! :)

[Dahawi]

I think he meant in terms of point cost. Why not just lose feel no pain? It's barely worth it on a 6+. The way I see it Azrael has a 2+ armour save and a 4+ invun save that he gives to his squad, plus feel no pain. If you did a straight swap for termite armour you gain no benefit to your saves and lose the ability to sweeping advance & feel no pain. You do however become relentless and have the ability to deep strike on a turn of your choosing which (if you are using Azrael' stats, rules and wargear) is pretty nasty. Especially when you could forgo storm shields and have a vengeance striking shooty termie squad with 4+ invun.

 

So basically what I'm saying is I think 5pts is a bit light, maybe pay 15-20pts for TDA on top of Azrael's points and forget FNP as it provides very little. The deep striking element is change enough I think.

[Drunkspleen]

So basically what I'm saying is I think 5pts is a bit light, maybe pay 15-20pts for TDA on top of Azrael's points and forget FNP as it provides very little. The deep striking element is change enough I think.

 

I think 15-20 points is still far too light, the ability to use Lion's Wrath and follow it up with a charge is a massive advantage, add to that the very nature of picking and choosing for Special Characters where the whole point is you don't get to do that, I would expect an opponent who wanted to do this to pay atleast 50 points for the Terminator armour, if not more.

[Phoebus]

Thanks, gentlemen - that's the reasoning I was looking for!  :)