Playing competitive BAs in 6th

[MrGando]

Hey guys,

 

I need to craft a competitive list for my yearly Game League. I've been extremely successful with lists carrying lots of jumpers backed-up by well-placed devastators and zero mech. 

 

Haven't tried the Razorspam list in 6th.

 

I think that we should all try to craft and discuss some competitive lists for 1500 - 1750 and 2000 pts.

 

In order to do so, I wanted to hear your success/failure stories so we can reach some conclussions about how to become more competitive, and what works better for tournaments.

 

When I say competitive, I mean, no prioritizing fluff, and making lists that are designed to win. I really feel that because of mobility and the way we can play, the BAs can craft fun and competitive lists in this edition.

 

(Will post mine after work today, and some battle reports)

[scratt]

hey guys,

 

this post made me join the B@C

 

Blood angels in 6th are an interesting beast i remember fondly the razor spam but times change and so must the army. 

 

firstly you need to work out your individual play style for example i play defensive until i spot a weakness or mistake and then use my QRF (Quick reaction force) to exploit it and if all goes well win the game.

 

ive tried razor spam and its situational, if you play lists like i get here in Cyprus with 40 grey hunters on foot and 100 guardsmen it works okay cos they all take flamers and they armies are set up to fight other infantry. that being said my mates tyranids rip my razor spam appart (Damm Hive Guard). 

 

ive decided to go for a more mixed list in 6th when playing competition. Speed  is key and blood angels do speed well with troops assault marines which in my opinion are more delicate than they were in 5th are still good.

 

the stormchicken (raven) is really good i dont want to say it but you need 1 in the army if not 2. i think the troop carrying is secondary to the firepower it provides and the hurricane bolters are a nice upgrade. ive found that if you opt to go second it can get the up on other flyers because it can deploy on their tail and in true top gun style bloodstrike peaple ass.

 

THSS Termies are good and the feel no pain is still good i have a unit in the list they are normally in my second storm raven and ready to be deployed as required.

 

not sure on the dreds i think they are situational but the librarian can still be a pain

 

il post my list up (2000) when ive found it in my car (just got back from playing a game wow black templars are still raging with that chapy and LRC

[Corby]

This list has been doing well for me , played 7 games with it so far , Came 7th out of 40 in a tournament on the weekend with it: 

 

Primary Detachment:

Mephiston /w codex powers

4x5 Assault marines /w flamers ( removed jump packs) 2 asscannon razors ,  2 las/plas razors.

3 Dreads /w 2 twin-linked autocannons.

Allied Detachment:

Inquistor /w terminator armour , daemon hammer , psycannon

2x10 Grey knight strikes /w 2 psycannons , 2 rhinos.

 

[1850]

 

Is a pretty solid take all comers list in my opinion. I need to work some melta and a better platform for plasma into it though , to make handling av13 heavy armies and mass 2+ saves easier. 

[ASSASSINAWOKEN]

Here is my list at 1500 points I tend to play a lot. Sometimes I remove the Death Company and various upgrades to make a 9 marine Sternuard squad to go in the Land Raider. Don't forget the Land Speeders create six HB shots each and if all three fire together can create fifteen HB shots and an added two ML shots. The dual HBs can be swapped with dual MMs as well at expense of the Typhhon.

 

 

Blood Angels army list

 

Headquarters

(Warlord)

Librarian w/ JP w/ Psychic Powers - Codex or Universal as needed

(Joined to Assault squad)

 

Elites

Sanguinary Priest w/ JP

(Joined to Assault squad)

 

Troops

Assault Squad w/ 2x Melta guns, PW

Tactical Squad w/ Lascannon, Plasma Rifle, PW

Death Company x5 w/ PW

Dedicated Transport - Land Raider w/ Multi-Melta

 

Fast Attack

Baal Predator w/ HB Sponsors, Dozer blades

Landspeeder Squadron x2 w/ x2 Tornado pattern HB

Landspeeder Typhoon

 

Heavy Support

Devastator Squad w/ x4 ML.

[MrGando]

Hey Guys,

 

Thanks for putting all those lists and comments.

 

About my individual playstyle... I really feel that BAs are able to react very fast on the field. Depending on my opponent/mission I will play a more defensive or aggressive battle. This is why I really feel that we can do quite well in competitive environments.

 

Because of the aforementioned reasons I've been playing hybrid lists too (in terms of assault/shooting power).

 

I'm also a strong believer of "model count" in 6th. I really like this approach, try to fill in lots of scoring units and bodies. And we as BAs, have one of the most flexible scoring unit, the assault squad.

 

1500 (1490) list

 

Troop

 

6x 5Men Assault Squad with JP, Power Weap, Melta Gun, Melta Bombs [780 pt total]

 

Elite

 

2x1 Men Sanguinary Priest Units with JP, [150 pt total]

 

Heavy

 

2x 5men Devastator Squads, 4 ML Each [260 pts total]

1x Storm Raven, TL LC, TL Multi Melta

 

HQ

 

1x Libby in Power Armour, 100 pts

 

---

 

Notes: You can always remove 3 melta bombs from the assaul squads to make space for a Jump Pack in the Libby, or 4 meltas to buy 2x Power Weaps on your Sang Priests.

 

---

 

How do I play this list:

 

The answer is in several ways, with this list you can deepstrike 6 units, which could be all of your assault squads or 5x plus one of those Priests...

 

You can also put some pressure while shooting with your missile launchers and your storm raven and using divination to re-roll the misses of one of your devastator squads and counter assault when your enemy get's close... 

 

I've also played this list without the storm raven using 3x Devastator Squads with good results (all with 3x Missile Launchers)

 

----

 

This list is quite robust, and very flexible in your gameplay options, I would really recommend it. ( Haven't lost a game with it yet... at least with the one with the three devastator squads. )

 

 

 

I would expect that people putting their list for analysis could write a bit about how are they playing their lists etc, more numbers :)

Hey Guys,

 

Thanks for putting all those lists and comments.

 

About my individual playstyle... I really feel that BAs are able to react very fast on the field. Depending on my opponent/mission I will play a more defensive or aggressive battle. This is why I really feel that we can do quite well in competitive environments.

 

Because of the aforementioned reasons I've been playing hybrid lists too (in terms of assault/shooting power).

 

I'm also a strong believer of "model count" in 6th. I really like this approach, try to fill in lots of scoring units and bodies. And we as BAs, have one of the most flexible scoring unit, the assault squad.

 

1500 (1490) list

 

Troop

 

6x 5Men Assault Squad with JP, Power Weap, Melta Gun, Melta Bombs [780 pt total]

 

Elite

 

2x1 Men Sanguinary Priest Units with JP, [150 pt total]

 

Heavy

 

2x 5men Devastator Squads, 4 ML Each [260 pts total]

1x Storm Raven, TL LC, TL Multi Melta

 

HQ

 

1x Libby in Power Armour, 100 pts

 

---

 

Notes: You can always remove 3 melta bombs from the assaul squads to make space for a Jump Pack in the Libby, or 4 meltas to buy 2x Power Weaps on your Sang Priests.

 

---

 

How do I play this list:

 

The answer is in several ways, with this list you can deepstrike 6 units, which could be all of your assault squads or 5x plus one of those Priests...

 

You can also put some pressure while shooting with your missile launchers and your storm raven and using divination to re-roll the misses of one of your devastator squads and counter assault when your enemy get's close... 

 

I've also played this list without the storm raven using 3x Devastator Squads with good results (all with 3x Missile Launchers)

 

----

 

This list is quite robust, and very flexible in your gameplay options, I would really recommend it. ( Haven't lost a game with it yet... at least with the one with the three devastator squads. )

 

 

 

I would expect that people putting their list for analysis could write a bit about how are they playing their lists etc, more numbers :)

[scratt]

Whats peaple's opinion on Mephison?

[Brother Maikel]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for putting all those lists and comments.

About my individual playstyle... I really feel that BAs are able to react very fast on the field. Depending on my opponent/mission I will play a more defensive or aggressive battle. This is why I really feel that we can do quite well in competitive environments.

Because of the aforementioned reasons I've been playing hybrid lists too (in terms of assault/shooting power).

I'm also a strong believer of "model count" in 6th. I really like this approach, try to fill in lots of scoring units and bodies. And we as BAs, have one of the most flexible scoring unit, the assault squad.

1500 (1490) list

Troop

6x 5Men Assault Squad with JP, Power Weap, Melta Gun, Melta Bombs [780 pt total]

Elite

2x1 Men Sanguinary Priest Units with JP, [150 pt total]

Heavy

2x 5men Devastator Squads, 4 ML Each [260 pts total]

1x Storm Raven, TL LC, TL Multi Melta

HQ

1x Libby in Power Armour, 100 pts

---

Notes: You can always remove 3 melta bombs from the assaul squads to make space for a Jump Pack in the Libby, or 4 meltas to buy 2x Power Weaps on your Sang Priests.

---

How do I play this list:

The answer is in several ways, with this list you can deepstrike 6 units, which could be all of your assault squads or 5x plus one of those Priests...

You can also put some pressure while shooting with your missile launchers and your storm raven and using divination to re-roll the misses of one of your devastator squads and counter assault when your enemy get's close...

I've also played this list without the storm raven using 3x Devastator Squads with good results (all with 3x Missile Launchers)

----

This list is quite robust, and very flexible in your gameplay options, I would really recommend it. ( Haven't lost a game with it yet... at least with the one with the three devastator squads. )

I would expect that people putting their list for analysis could write a bit about how are they playing their lists etc, more numbers

A couple quick suggestions:

* Why 6x 5-man instead of 3x 10-man? With 10-man squads you can still have two specials and can still split into two 5-man squads, but you can a.) put both specials into one squad and zero in the other b.) keep them together to reduce the number of KP you can give your opponent c.) have an easier time protecting valuable units (characters, Relic-bearers, etc).

* I'd run TLAC+TLMM over TLLC+TLMM. The Stormraven's missles are already providing long-range punch, and within 24" the TLAC is mathematically better at causing penetrating hits to literally everything: 4x the shots plus Rending makes up for the lower strength. Plus its better at killing lower-AV vehicles, heavy infantry, and light infantry due to the greater number of shots/wounds/glances/pens.

* If you can find the room I'd seriously consider adding Hurricane Bolters. 12x Twin-Linked Bolter shots at 12" can force a lot of saves, even to T6 or 2+ Save models.

* Drop Power Weapons from Sarges rather than Special Weapons. No Sword/Axe means you're slightly less good at killing infantry. No Meltagun means you're basically screwed against anything with AV12+.

* Don't let 10pts go to waste. At the very least toss Meltabombs on your Priests.

Going from 6x 5-man to 3x 10-man would save you 90pts (10pts base cost difference, 3 less PWs, 3 less MBs).

Spend 30 on Hurricane Bolters, 30 on Power Axes for your Priests, and 25 on a Jump Pack for your Libby. That leaves 15 pts to do with as you please, which could include putting a special pistol on a sarge or your Libby, giving both priests and the libby Meltabombs, or upgrading a Missile Launcher to a Lascannon (which the Sarge there can signum for the 2+ to Hit)

Whats peaple's opinion on Mephison?

Amazing. Mephiston and a Stormraven are the two autoincludes for any of my competitive army lists. Keep him with Codex powers unless facing a pure-TDA list and he'll wreck whatever non-2+ unit you throw him at.

[MrGando]

That's the kind of reply that I was hoping to get!

 

I think this list could fit in Meph, but I would need to drop too many bodies to fit him in... I would like to hear your opinion on this but I think that Meph is most viable in 1750+

 

I like the rest of the suggestions so my 1500 pts core would be:

 

3x 10 Men Assault Squads With JP, Power Swords, Melta Bomb, 2x Melta Gun [690 pts]

2x 5 Men Devastator Squads With 4x ML, [260 pts]

1x Storm Raven, TLML+TLAC, Hurricane Bolters [230 pts]

2x Sang Priest with JP and Power Axe [190 pts]

1x Libby with JP [125 pts]

 

This would allow even more flexibility, since the librarian can help some assault squads if needed too... (usually later on in the game)

 

Cheers, and thanks for the wonderful suggestions.

[Balinor]

One of my favorite uses for the Storm Raven is to transport a Furioso Dred, (w/ a frag cannon usually) and a tactical squad and sometimes a priest.  I then pick an objective my opponent thinks is "safe" fly at it the turn I show up, then hover mode to unload the next turn.  Drop the dred and squad, frag cannon and rapid fire then charge the dred at anything still alive.  

 

If all goes well and my opponent is forced to either shoot at my tactical squad in his backfield or the assault marines jumping towards him.  They don't usually want to use an assault unit to try to clear them off because the dred is still there.

 

The best part is that he either has to spend a turn shooting a cheap squad (170ish points) to get his "safe" objective back, or let my squad take potshots at the back of his units (where the special weapons normally are).

 

Granted if you lose the Storm Raven before it drops it's cargo the rest of the game is likely to suck but this doesn't happen as often as you might fear (only once to me, and I often fly it right at aegis defense lines with the quad gun).

[Bloodsurfer]

This isnt really a competitive list but I like it and it can do very well when played correctly.

 

HQ

Divination Librarian

 

ELITES

8 Sternguard with 5 Combi-Plasma's and a Melta-gun in a Drop Pod

Sanguinary Priest

 

TROOPS

10 Death Company with Bolters and 2 IP in a Drop Pod

Tac Squad with Meltagun and Multi-Melta in a Drop Pod 

 

FAST ATTACK

10 Vanguard Veterans, Sergeant with TH/SS, 3 Power Weapons and the rest with BP/CS

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

Stormraven Gunship

 

The idea is to drop in with the Librarian, Sanguinary Priest and Sternguard along with either the tac-squad or death company on the first turn to form an anchor for the rest of the army. They are aimed at anything large or dangerous such as vehicles, walkers etc. Turn two, the Vanguard Veterans, who are generally combat squaded, arrive with power weapons and thunder hammer to challenge Characters as an assassination unit while the second group of 5 arrives to tie up the enemies shooting. the last drop pod arrives while the raven arrives to support the army taking out the remaining vehicles and or characters.

 

It has worked well so far and I believe its pretty fluffy as well.

[MrGando]

One of my favorite uses for the Storm Raven is to transport a Furioso Dred, (w/ a frag cannon usually) and a tactical squad and sometimes a priest. I then pick an objective my opponent thinks is "safe" fly at it the turn I show up, then hover mode to unload the next turn. Drop the dred and squad, frag cannon and rapid fire then charge the dred at anything still alive.

If all goes well and my opponent is forced to either shoot at my tactical squad in his backfield or the assault marines jumping towards him. They don't usually want to use an assault unit to try to clear them off because the dred is still there.

The best part is that he either has to spend a turn shooting a cheap squad (170ish points) to get his "safe" objective back, or let my squad take potshots at the back of his units (where the special weapons normally are).

Granted if you lose the Storm Raven before it drops it's cargo the rest of the game is likely to suck but this doesn't happen as often as you might fear (only once to me, and I often fly it right at aegis defense lines with the quad gun).

The problem with doing that, is that you're spending a huge amount of points 400+ devoted for a situational task. A non disciplined opponent could panic and make mistakes, but a good opponent will not fall for this... so I wouldn't call this tactic "competitive", maybe someone more experienced disagrees with me?

This isnt really a competitive list but I like it and it can do very well when played correctly.

HQ

Divination Librarian

ELITES

8 Sternguard with 5 Combi-Plasma's and a Melta-gun in a Drop Pod

Sanguinary Priest

TROOPS

10 Death Company with Bolters and 2 IP in a Drop Pod

Tac Squad with Meltagun and Multi-Melta in a Drop Pod

FAST ATTACK

10 Vanguard Veterans, Sergeant with TH/SS, 3 Power Weapons and the rest with BP/CS

HEAVY SUPPORT

Stormraven Gunship

The idea is to drop in with the Librarian, Sanguinary Priest and Sternguard along with either the tac-squad or death company on the first turn to form an anchor for the rest of the army. They are aimed at anything large or dangerous such as vehicles, walkers etc. Turn two, the Vanguard Veterans, who are generally combat squaded, arrive with power weapons and thunder hammer to challenge Characters as an assassination unit while the second group of 5 arrives to tie up the enemies shooting. the last drop pod arrives while the raven arrives to support the army taking out the remaining vehicles and or characters.

It has worked well so far and I believe its pretty fluffy as well.

I like the idea, it's a fun list :) ... would like to keep the topic competitive though... let's try to "break BAs"

[Balinor]

I guess I would argue that getting my opponents troops off an objective (usualy worth 3 victory points) and then claiming that objective in the likely case that you kill the one squad holding it is not a "situational" tactic. Those objectives are how you win 5 out of 6 of the basic scenarios.

 

You are not going to "break" the blood Angels codex by making a pure cheese list. For that l would look to daemons, or necrons or grey knights. To win consistently you are going to need to take advantage of the things that make blood angels unique. Like assault squad troops, feel no pain bubbles and in my opinion flying transports loaded with the best drednaughts that points can buy.

[Bartali]

If we're talking optimal lists, Dreads in Ravens don't make the cut. Normally trying to get the Raven into position for the Dread to assault next turn means you're generally not shooting other fliers. Secondly, the Raven has to go into hover mode to assault.

[Morticon]

Id say do not go into a competitive tournament without Mephiston. 

Also, bring a Raven.  Maybe two. 

Those are my only suggestions for "non-negotiable". 

[Morticon]

If we're talking optimal lists, Dreads in Ravens don't make the cut. Normally trying to get the Raven into position for the Dread to assault next turn means you're generally not shooting other fliers. Secondly, the Raven has to go into hover mode to assault.

 

Ive said before, and ill disagree again.  I think a dred in a raven is a very optimal unit combo.  You are the general, meaning if it will win you the game to unload your raven in turn 3 and destroy a unit, then its worth the sacrifice.

 

Your list should be build in such a way that if in turn three the raven is in hover mode, the enemy will suffer putting additional shots into the raven instead of the other things that are going to kill him.  

 

If you have designed a list that will not do well once your raven is dead in turn 3 and a substantial threat engaged with your dread, then I dont believe its a good list.   We pay extra for the transport capacity of the Raven.  Its not a bad investment to have be able to place an uber-killy unit anywhere on the board, and charge unmolested the next turn.  

[IK Viper]

Blood Angels are very fast and tactiaclly flexable as previously stated.  We also have one of the better flyers in the game, (IG have some really good options for alot cheaper b/c that codex is grossly undercosted for how good some of the units became is 6th)  So lets review our advantages:

> Stormravens

> Scoring troops with jump packs and very accurate deep strikes

> Feel No Pain access in 6 inch bubbles

> Librarians with Divination access

 

Down sides:

> rhinos are more expensive

> tacticals are the same as SM

> point for point SW, GK, DA, and Chaos SM basically get the exact same units we do for cheaper,  Ex. a mastery level 2 DA librarian is the same points as a lvl 1 BA librarian

 

I think the way to go with BA is to mix in some mech and some flyers backed up by Assault Marines and Divination.  For me, I find that with all the new bonuses being given to Chaos Demons and Hell Drakes (FAQ makes no sense and makes them very very good now, simply to sell models)  having alot of power armored troops standing on the board is asking to get roasted, problem with Marines is that they are not cheap enough to just stand up to it...  This being said I advocate keeping owning the skys with Storm Ravens, I am now running 1 in friendly games and 2 in competative lists.  As wel as keeping my units that start on the board in Rhinos.  That way I can DS my jumpers hopefully after the Drakes/Flamers of Tzeench come in.  That being said, I have looked to Allies to fill the Rhino troop contingent because our rhinos are 15 points more expensive and Fast does not usually help a rhino that you want to move 6, get out for 6 and double tap with.  That being said, I am having pretty good success with the following:

 

1750 BA with SoB allies

 

ASM (10) 2 MG PF

ASM (10) 2 MG PF

Librarian JP

 

Predator Las Can. Sponsons

 

2x Stormravens Twl Las Can Twl MM

 

Battle Sisters (10) 2 MG Rhino

Dominions (10) 4 Flamers  Rhino  (they have scout USR)

 

Saint Celestine (check her our, she is a beast)

 

Exercist (predator armor, fires d6 S8 AP1 missiles 48 inches per turn)

 

this list got me to top table in a 24 man tournament 2 weeks ago,  lost my last game to a DE/Eldar beast pack, I made some mistakes in that game though :-(

The list is good at owning the air and has AV 13 long range shooting that usually looks to get First Blood and then destroy the enemie's transports to lock down their mobility.

Dominions and Saint are sent forward (Dominions often outflank) and tie up the enemy, backed up by ASM marines  and a Battle Sister squad where needed.  The big thing is that everything in the list can move more then 12 inches a turn if it has to.  18 in most cases.  So I can bounce away from trouble if needed.

 

The thing you have to remember with Blood Angels is that point-for-point we DO NOT stack up against other power armored armies and thus will not win a grinding attrition war.  To win BA must bring overwhelming force to a specific area of the battle field or get alot more use out of theri units then other armies, AV 13 is hard to pop and Flyers are hard to bring down, this can result in several turns worth of shooting and inflicting damage, stretching those point alot farther then they normally would go.  Also with the rise of AP3 and armor ignoring Template weapons in the Chaos Dex and the Demons update,  marines on the table have to be very careful to avoid getting blown away very quickly before getting a chance to earn their points back.  This is why I am more and more convinced that the massed Jumper Assault without back field and airborn fire support will not survive long enough to hit the enemy line with enough force to break it.  As much as people hate transports, they do offer a layer of protection against these very powerful template weapons that are currently being spammed in alot of "competative" games.      

[Chaplain Admetus]

I'd disagree on the Mephy AND Raven as non-negotiable at 1500. That's just under 1/3rd of your total points, and you're likely to get overwhelmed due to lack of bodies.. For 1750 or higher, maybe. I'm tempted to try the dread in storm raven combo, but it looks like when I moved house one of my boxes got put into storage, being the one with both my furiosos and my second drop pod, so that's a non starter :(.

[Brother Maikel]

I'd disagree on the Mephy AND Raven as non-negotiable at 1500. That's just under 1/3rd of your total points, and you're likely to get overwhelmed due to lack of bodies.. For 1750 or higher, maybe. I'm tempted to try the dread in storm raven combo, but it looks like when I moved house one of my boxes got put into storage, being the one with both my furiosos and my second drop pod, so that's a non starter .

I run both Mephy and a Raven even at 1250. It really depends on the list you're running. If everything else in your list is infantry/jump infantry, then you really don't end up hurting too badly compared to other lists. If you're running stuff like Baals/Dreadnaughts/Bikes, then the points start adding up and fitting both in the list might become more difficult. At 1250 I usually have somewhere around 30-33 infantry bodies plus the Raven. At 1500 that usually goes up to around 35-40. Its on the low side, but not abysmally low (it's nowhere close to my other 1.5k list: Draigowing, with 16 total models. That list suffers from low model count )

[Remmy]

Several strong units/combos that buff us greatly from the new DA dex:

Dark angels now make running land raiders viable again via 2 combos.

 

-The first is a DA libby that has a power field generator riding in a bike behind/with whatever vehicles you like (4+ invuln save for landraiders/razorbacks/vindicators and surrounding units is amazing) Costs around 115 points if he's riding a bike (oh yeah and they can take div powers). Also nice to have the option to have him meet up with a squad of our jump pack infantry and stand toe to toe with terminators from the 4+ invuln and 2 axes.

 

-The second is our old shield of sanguinius power is now complimented nicely with a new 80 point dark angels landspeeder( a landspeeder thats only modeling requirements is a single heavy bolter). Combined they provide a nice 4+ cover save bubble.

 

Individually/Combined these first 2 may very well bring back competitive razor spam lists (which i never liked but oh well). My favorite part is that they allow me to take landraiders that force my opponent to sweat a bit since his 5 man sternguard units will have a tough time popping them on turn 1. Especially if corbulo is around.

 

-The last major piece of wargear from DA that is a major buff to blood angels is their specialized grenade launcher that has 2 important firing modes. One is -1 toughness, the other is -1 initiave ON HIT. No need to wound. This is an extremely nice versatile tool mounted on bikes for the low price of 120 points.

[MrGando]

Several strong units/combos that buff us greatly from the new DA dex:

Dark angels now make running land raiders viable again via 2 combos.

-The first is a DA libby that has a power field generator riding in a bike behind/with whatever vehicles you like (4+ invuln save for landraiders/razorbacks/vindicators and surrounding units is amazing) Costs around 115 points if he's riding a bike (oh yeah and they can take div powers). Also nice to have the option to have him meet up with a squad of our jump pack infantry and stand toe to toe with terminators from the 4+ invuln and 2 axes.

-The second is our old shield of sanguinius power is now complimented nicely with a new 80 point dark angels landspeeder( a landspeeder thats only modeling requirements is a single heavy bolter). Combined they provide a nice 4+ cover save bubble.

Individually/Combined these first 2 may very well bring back competitive razor spam lists (which i never liked but oh well). My favorite part is that they allow me to take landraiders that force my opponent to sweat a bit since his 5 man sternguard units will have a tough time popping them on turn 1. Especially if corbulo is around.

-The last major piece of wargear from DA that is a major buff to blood angels is their specialized grenade launcher that has 2 important firing modes. One is -1 toughness, the other is -1 initiave ON HIT. No need to wound. This is an extremely nice versatile tool mounted on bikes for the low price of 120 points.

This sounds very interesting... you could publish a competitive list abusing those combos for everyone to join the discussion. Maybe try to craft a razorspam list around it, and another list just abusing the DAs.

I'd disagree on the Mephy AND Raven as non-negotiable at 1500. That's just under 1/3rd of your total points, and you're likely to get overwhelmed due to lack of bodies.. For 1750 or higher, maybe. I'm tempted to try the dread in storm raven combo, but it looks like when I moved house one of my boxes got put into storage, being the one with both my furiosos and my second drop pod, so that's a non starter .

I run both Mephy and a Raven even at 1250. It really depends on the list you're running. If everything else in your list is infantry/jump infantry, then you really don't end up hurting too badly compared to other lists. If you're running stuff like Baals/Dreadnaughts/Bikes, then the points start adding up and fitting both in the list might become more difficult. At 1250 I usually have somewhere around 30-33 infantry bodies plus the Raven. At 1500 that usually goes up to around 35-40. Its on the low side, but not abysmally low (it's nowhere close to my other 1.5k list: Draigowing, with 16 total models. That list suffers from low model count )

Well, that's what I think too, but maybe it's a matter of personal style. I'll try to field mephy in a 1500 test competitive list, I'll be playing against a SoB competitive list in the upcoming weeks.

So, after reading all the previous posts some things are more or less certain.

1. Abuse the Storm Raven, 1 or 2 depending on the point count.

I was thinking about taking long-fangs as allies if I do play with the raven, since they can shoot two units at once it can be a wonderful ally if we really need that 48'' firebase to support our JPs (which should ALWAYS run in FnP bubbles from what I've also experienced).

2. FnP bubbles for our JP troops... these make them more durable for moving to objectives in the last couple of turns and during the game.

3. Mephiston , he seems to be a must-have from what I've read above. I'm still wondering if he's viable in 1500... I think that an experienced player can just "entertain" him with some unit and having 250 pts stuck at 1500 points is like having ~17% of your army locked with some bait... I think it could be dangerous. Would love to hear other ppl thoughts about that.

---

So, does anyone want to get the ball running with some lists to discuss?

[SevenExxes]

I have three tactical squads of which I run with plasmagun/plasma cannon upgrades. Just for laughs I added a duel plasma pistol Sgt in one of the squads.

But are tacticals even worth taking? Am I just wasting my time with these three squads?

[Sokhar]

I'd say that not only is Mephiston a competitive choice in 1500 pts and below, but (within reason) the lower the poitn value you're playing, the better he gets. Most of the things that will really thwart Mephiston cost a roughly equivalent amount of points. The fewer points your opponent has, the less likely he has a counter available for Mephiston. And anything that doesn't fall into that narrow counter role gets mulched by the Mulleted Man.

 

I've played Mephiston in 1K point tournament. He takes over games at that level. If you don't have something with a 2+ save that can tank him, or massive AP 2 shooting to blast him apart, he'll pretty much rampage through your whole army.

 

BA aren't terrible for competitive play, but I feel like we've taken a hit in 6th. You really need to use allies to augment our weaknesses, moreso than some of the other armies that were previously considered top tier. Dark Angels and Space Wolves are two very strong candidates for allies to fill those holes.

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

I think that BA need to be completely rethought in 6th. I think the things to focus on are:

 

Bolter death company

 

Sanguinary priests for FnP with tactical squads

 

Drop pods.

 

These in conjunction with storm ravens and mephy should be the core of our army now.

[Jorre]

Inspiring thread! I have been pretty slack lately, but my next competative 2k list plans on running 3 storm ravens mephy and a furioso! I havnt put it down on paper yet but since I'm going to have a low model count I'm going to need some rock solid troops to keep me in the game till the air support rocks up!

 

I'm thinking either 2 10 man tacticals with priests or 2 assault squads with priests! Maybe some guardsman allies if I can squeeze them in for the master of the fleet and astropath. This would allow my ravens to come in on a 2+ and force my opponents reserves to be a 4+

[moric]

So far i have played with this list

Cpt. jumpack ,thunderhammer

4- 10 man assault squads (power axe,2 melta guns)

3 Stormravens (with hurricane bolters)

this is 1720 pts if i remember correctly and for greater point caps i usualy add sanguinary priests 

 

In my area this list is pretty scary for opponents as i try to  "hide" my assault squads and use their jumpacks to get them closer and closer to the enemy keeping them in cover or out of line of sight, all that till the point that the ravens soften up some targets for assault.