skeletoro Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Main issue is getting them in position to charge. They can't assault out of a drop pod (Which, if you don't shoot the plasmaguns that turn, kind of makes you skip a turn. And if you do, that might not be the unit you get to charge), and footslogging doesn't work for assault units, which leaves the land raider. Which is really, really expensive. And my point was that Wolf Guard Terminators are for assault. Sure, they can shoot pretty well compared to, say, Blood Claws or Thunderwolf Cavalry, but if you want to shoot things, take Grey Hunters and Long Fangs instead. Yeah, I know that's what you meant, and yeah, you have to pick appropriate delivery options for it to work. That said, some of the assault rampy things are actually fairly good in their own right. Having to buy a Land Raider, Storm Eagle or Caestus Assault Ram is surely a constraint, but not necessarily a burden. For instance, the storm eagle gives roughly the firepower of a long fangs squad plus two whirlwinds (but with skyfire) - which is about how much it costs. Depending on your opponent's anti-air and your ability to counter it, the storm eagle may be more or less durable than said long fangs/whirlwinds. My point is, it's not a bad choice anyway, depending on the list you put it in. It's not like you're paying 300 points and getting an assault ramp and nothing else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3294148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 So here is what I came up with for 2k based on what you've given me. It is only cursory since its getting late. x1 Bear Lord - 240 * Tooled as above x1 Rune Priest - 100 x1 Bear Champion - 160 * Tooled as above --- x10 Grey Hunters w/ Plasma - 160 x10 Grey Hunters w/ Plasma - 160 --- x6 Wolf Guard - 363 * 1/2 Claw Combo - 1/2 Shield Combo * Land Raider Redeemer w/ Melta Transport - 250 ** Would have loved to use Arjac here, but no points. --- x4 Thunderwolf Cavalry - 285 points -Storm Shield, Powerfist+Stormshield --- x6 Long Fangs - 140 x1 Predator w/ Las Sponsons - 120 x1 Predator w/ Standard - 60 This totals 1981. A few things of note that I'm not happy with: -- I didn't get the second Land Raider & Wolf Guard, which is a bummer. -- I only have two troop choices -- No Logan / No Arjac -- No special gear on any unit really, outside the deathstars. -- Rune Priest is stock naked Yet I still feel I am coming closer to the over all goal. A condensed terminator oriented force requires Logan to be effective, so we move away from that to allow us to function on a broader level. I knew I wanted tanks, my Iron Hands have none save a single Land Raider as a command bunker. So I really wanted to get some into this force, plus they are all big and bear-like... sorta. So Predators needed to get stuffed in. If it wasn't for the Long Fangs providing anti-air AND anti-everything else I would probably drop them for yet another one, maybe a vindicator? I think I am most happy with the Thunderwolves and how they will perform. So what to tweak? Thanks! Edit - Forgot to add the dang cavalry! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3294196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichfaust Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 That looks like a pretty solid, if not standard Space Wolves list imho. Kind of strayed a bit from what you were setting out to do initially though, hasn't it? I kind of expected to see at least one TWC unit in your list... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3294324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 That looks like a pretty solid, if not standard Space Wolves list imho. Kind of strayed a bit from what you were setting out to do initially though, hasn't it? I kind of expected to see at least one TWC unit in your list... Haha! Thats what I get for rushing. There is supposed to be a TWC unit! Adding it now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3294560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Well, terrible new! Looks like my GW is unwilling to let me use the Scibor bears in place of Thunderwolves, thereby kneecapping the concept and stunting it before it could begin to grow. You may ask why I need to play at the GW? Three things, awesome terrain, awesome people, and it is the closest location to where I live. Its a shame because its not like GW produces any bears themselves for me to use, so I am stuck trying to greenstuff thunderwolves into bears or just passing on this really amazing concept. Do any of you have any suggestions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3317941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Silly suggestion seeing a I don't play Fantasy but what about the Mournfangs from the Ogres Fantasy army? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3317979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 That is actually a pretty damn good idea.. if for nothing else than a foundation to build a bear off of or I could even use the Rhinox and make Rhino riding Scottsmen.. hrmm. Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3317997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 and the old kislev figurine of the Tzar... http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Boris_Ursus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3318081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted March 2, 2013 Author Share Posted March 2, 2013 Boris is no longer being produced, so its only ebay for him... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3318114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 at least it's gw so them store managers can't complain... and you could just get one, make a mould of the head, and use it on another creature's body (juggernauts?) gs some pelt on them, but leaving the armourplating open in key locations... never mind, that'll be mine then :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3318219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 I'm pretty sure someone has used a Mournfang for a thunder wolf way back before they actually released THunder wolves. If you are looking for ideas modelling wise, find the thread on alternative thunderwolves. Good Luck. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3318402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Rhinox, Mournfangs, Boars, these are all alternative mounts that would fit, heck I could even use horses if I had to. Yet none of it really meshes as well with my theme as bears would. I mean Scottsmen riding anything less just feels wrong (though Boars could work, as they are native to Hibernia after all). Its a tough situation, I wonder if I can get GW to officially sanction my use of Scibor bears provided every other unit in the army is from GW (which it would be.) Sent out the question, now its just a matter of waiting to see what they say. If it doesn't work out I may just have to make it a display piece instead of an actual force, which is a shame. Thank you all for your insight! Raven. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3328133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Legionnaire Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 What difference does it make to GW if you use what you want for models? I'm fairly new and I'm sorry for the off topic post.. but I was intrigued. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3328262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I'm guessing that the main reason is that they see in-store games as an opportunity to show off the products. If you bring GW models and another player goes "oh cool, what's that?" it provides an immediate tie-in to something they (rather than their competitors) are selling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3328280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 Skeletoro has the right of it, they don't want people learning about / becoming interested in alternative model providers within their own store. Which is understandable. It is just a real bummer since GW doesn't actually manufacture a single bear model at all. Leaving me few options. Either I compromise my concept and make Rhino riders, I find someone with enough greenstuff skills to converted said Rhinos into Bears, or I need to just go ahead with the bear concept and use them as a display piece (barring finding an alternative store to use them at.. which I really would prefer to avoid if possible.) Dilemna's..well it is something to mull over, this project is a ways off regardless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3328548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Legionnaire Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 That sounds pretty stupid. It's a fun hobby and all.. but continuing to raise prices while stating that they are not okay with other models is really sticking it to the fan base that supports them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3328787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Okay, I am back with a new set of questions. After mulling over my situation with the bear cavalry I've decided to attack the issue from a different angle (one not requiring the cavalry as a center piece). So I challenge you, brothers, to give me insight to the following: I want this force to lack energy weapons of any kind, due to their back story. So I need lots of hard ammunition weaponry, keep that in mind with any ideas you may have. Blood Claws - I like the idea of using my "cubs" as a beat stick. Especially when given Saga of the Hunter and outflanking the enemy. Two units of this might be great. Long Fangs - I am thinking of having one of these with Heavy Bolters / Missile Launchers also outflanking the enemy. Preds vs. Fangs - I am torn, I love the idea of having three units of Heavy Bolter / Missile Launcher Fangs in the army, especially supported by Dakka-Backs, but at the same time I like the idea of actually fitting some Predators in (as I rarely use tanks). The question becomes which will be more effective at dealing with the problems a no-energy weapons list will come to face. Rifleman Dreads - Offer me some anti-vehicle / air for a reasonable price tag. Also filling a slot that isn't too contested at the moment, unlike heavy support. Any thoughts on how to re-engineer the list with these elements in mind? (I know, talk about a shift in concept... from a logan wing to a bullet list. I am really wanting to make an army of kilt wearing mark II crusade armor marines.) Insight please! Thank you, Raven Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270296-thunderwolvesbears-wolfbear-wing/page/2/#findComment-3335197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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