Seahawk Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Question came up recently about Deathwing and Split Fire. Consider this loadout: 4x thunder hammer/storm shields and one has an Assault Cannon. Say I want to assault Unit A but don't want to shoot any with the assault cannon, and Unit B has 1-2 models left and are easily killed by it. So, am I allowed to pass a Leadership test to Split Fire the Assault Cannon at Unit B and still charge Unit A? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 "a unit that fired in the Shooting phase can only charge the unit it targeted during the turn's Shooting phase.", BRB, Pg.20 What unit(s) was/were targeted during the turn's Shooting phase? Only the unit the Assault cannon was fired at as the rest of the models aren't equipped with ranged attacks. Now if you had an attached IC who could shot something (pistol, Witchfire, etc) at the other unit you could charge it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/#findComment-3292754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Ugh, that assault-only-what-you-shot-at limitation is just so stuuuupid *cringes* Also, could a "targeting" case be made? The splitfiring model targets something else than the UNIT. The Unit as a whole should be able to assault, as it itself DID NOT target, e.g., that Rhino which got hit with the Split Fire Cyclone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/#findComment-3292831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 No you cannot, because you have to be able to target the primary unit with a shooting attack in order to split fire to another unit. In the spirit of the rules it would make sense but itl have to be FAQed. To get around it just put 1 storm bolter guy in the mix then the special weapon on another model and you shoot the SB at primary, split fire, then assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/#findComment-3292841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polythemus Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Heres a followup ive been considering. If you shoot at two units, can you keep you +1a when making a multicharge? You have two primaries cause youve shot two units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/#findComment-3293346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Heres a followup ive been considering. If you shoot at two units, can you keep you +1a when making a multicharge? You have two primaries cause youve shot two units.No. The "primary target" in the Assault phase is the unit which you declare the charge against. In the case of a unit which shot, it must be a unit the charging unit shot at - but you still don't have permission to declare multiple primary Assault target units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/#findComment-3293357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Question came up recently about Deathwing and Split Fire. Consider this loadout: 4x thunder hammer/storm shields and one has an Assault Cannon. Say I want to assault Unit A but don't want to shoot any with the assault cannon, and Unit B has 1-2 models left and are easily killed by it. So, am I allowed to pass a Leadership test to Split Fire the Assault Cannon at Unit B and still charge Unit A? To be safe, you can always leave/add one Terminator stock with a storm bolter and use him to shoot at your primary. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/#findComment-3294217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bystrom Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Some follow-up questions What if you only have a single assault cannon, want to charge squad A, split fire squad B, and fail your Ld test, can you then charge squad A? What if you have a single assault cannon and a storm bolter, want to charge squad A, split fire squad B, make your test, but then choose to not shoot your storm bolter at squad A (as that might increase your charge distance), can you then charge squad A? How do you know which of the two units you shot against when split firing, is the unit you can charge? One of the enemy units is shot with one model, while the other is with the rest of the unit. Is the rest of the unit enough to constitute a unit shooting at a target? It never states that the rest of the unit's shooting is in some way the "normal" shooting round or the primary or similar. The restriction when it comes to shooting and charging only states that a unit can only charge a unit that was targetted during that turn's shooting phase by the unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/#findComment-3297680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Some follow-up questions What if you only have a single assault cannon, want to charge squad A, split fire squad B, and fail your Ld test, can you then charge squad A? You can't Split Fire if you only have a single ranged weapon in a unit. "When a unit containings at least one model with this special rule shoots, one model in the unit can shoot at a different target to the rest of the unit. ... Once this shooting attack has been resolved, resolve the shooting of the rest of the unit, which must be at a different target.", BRB, pg.42 What if you have a single assault cannon and a storm bolter, want to charge squad A, split fire squad B, make your test, but then choose to not shoot your storm bolter at squad A (as that might increase your charge distance), can you then charge squad A? "a unit that fired in the Shooting phase can only charge the unit it targeted during the turn's Shooting phase.", BRB, Pg.20 You can only charge a unit if you targeted it in the Shooting phase. And you must resolve the Storm Bolter shooting at a different target if you choose to use Split Fire. Once this shooting attack has been resolved, resolve the shooting of the rest of the unit, which must be at a different target.", BRB, pg.42 How do you know which of the two units you shot against when split firing, is the unit you can charge? One of the enemy units is shot with one model, while the other is with the rest of the unit. Is the rest of the unit enough to constitute a unit shooting at a target? It never states that the rest of the unit's shooting is in some way the "normal" shooting round or the primary or similar. The restriction when it comes to shooting and charging only states that a unit can only charge a unit that was targetted during that turn's shooting phase by the unit. It doesn't matter. If you resolved shooting at two different targets (using Split Fire) then you have permission to charge either of the two units during your Assault phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/#findComment-3297706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bystrom Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 What if you have a single assault cannon and a storm bolter, want to charge squad A, split fire squad B, make your test, but then choose to not shoot your storm bolter at squad A (as that might increase your charge distance), can you then charge squad A? "a unit that fired in the Shooting phase can only charge the unit it targeted during the turn's Shooting phase.", BRB, Pg.20You can only charge a unit if you targeted it in the Shooting phase. And you must resolve the Storm Bolter shooting at a different target if you choose to use Split Fire. Once this shooting attack has been resolved, resolve the shooting of the rest of the unit, which must be at a different target.", BRB, pg.42 While I agree with the first and the third remark I can't agree with the 2nd. Any model can choose not to fire. Starting with the point of targetting, all that is required to target a unit in the Shooting phase is to be in line of sight and in range with at least one weapon (passed by the storm bolter termie). When you are resolving your shooting, you simply have no weapon to shoot if you choose not to fire your storm bolter, which you're always allowed to do. You've even been able to follow all the steps in the Shooting sequence, chosen a valid target, rolled D6 for each fired shot, rolled D6 to wound for each hit, and allocated all wounds and rolled any saves. SO: IMO, for a valid "shooting", one needs to have ranged weapons, and choose a valid target. Since the squad satisfies the targetting criteria, even when split firing and not choosing to shoot with the storm bolter, the squad has "shot" as it passes all the steps in the Shooting Sequence, despite "actually hitting with anything". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/#findComment-3298011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 "a unit that fired in the Shooting phase can only charge the unit it targeted during the turn's Shooting phase.", BRB, Pg.20You can only charge a unit if you targeted it in the Shooting phase. And you must resolve the Storm Bolter shooting at a different target if you choose to use Split Fire. Once this shooting attack has been resolved, resolve the shooting of the rest of the unit, which must be at a different target.", BRB, pg.42 Well... the question is, does targetting require resolving shots against a unit? Because the rule only requires that you target a different unit. It does not specifically say you must resolve shots at the unit targetted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/#findComment-3298275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Seriously, guys?!? Good luck with the "I targeted your unit with no shooting at all" argument. Not only is it invalid by RAW, it's also illogical, nonsensical, and unsportsmanlike. Plus, if you have a Storm Bolter to play your "I target you, but don't shoot you" games, then why not just shoot the two S4/AP5 shots at the unit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/#findComment-3299195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bystrom Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Seriously, guys?!? Good luck with the "I targeted your unit with no shooting at all" argument. Not only is it invalid by RAW, it's also illogical, nonsensical, and unsportsmanlike. Plus, if you have a Storm Bolter to play your "I target you, but don't shoot you" games, then why not just shoot the two S4/AP5 shots at the unit? Yes, seriously :P I do not agree with your opinion regarding the nonsensical, illogicalness of it all. I see it as terminators being so badass that they can split their attention, even if this means that they focus fire on one squad then charge the other. To me it makes much more sense if you did not in fact have to target a squad with your normal shoot after spitting fire, as this would mean a heavy weapon can lay waste to one squad then let you charge the other, even if the rest are close combat goons. Yes, the scenario I've detailed is probably never going to pop up, but in what way is it actually not following the rules? What is wrong with my reasoning? Has the squad not chosen a valid target? Has the squad not rolled a D6 for each shot fired, etc? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/#findComment-3299368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 If you havent already chosen and fired at a primay target, you have done nothing to split your fire from, surely........ If you aren't splitting your fire you obviously have only 1 target....... If you only have 1 target then you have only 1 unit you can charge in the assault phase........ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270301-split-fire/#findComment-3299523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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