Hunt the Fallen! All the Time! (fluff stuff)

[Tiger9gamer]

So, I was reading through the 40k wikia article on the 13th black crusade, and kinda got a little angry at my new favorite army, the dark angels. Some of the story stated that they ended up splitting off from a major battle to go fallen hunting, and that their presence could have ended the fight early.

 

Now, question is, Do the Unforgiven only hunt that Fallen? and Why does it take such president over everything else?

[Azrael Turnbull]

Fortunately, this is a relatively easy question to answer. No, the Unforgiven do not only hunt the Fallen, but as you have already noticed, they take precedence over all else when they turn up. Why?

 

Well, nothing has changed in regards to regarding the Fallen as the highest priority. In fact, older codex's have seen Dark Angels go to far more extreme acts, turning entire villagers into Servitors or killing them if they had the slightest reason to know anything. In the current codex, that kind of thing hasn't happened (although the incident with the Black Templars and the Inquisitor are both still there).

 

The idea is that the Dark Angels are the most successful and sufficient or all the loyalist chapters (as stated in our codex, booyah!). Their victories were only outnumbered by Horus' own legion. But, being the grim dark future and all, the best are haunted by a single event in their past that could ultimately see them excommunicated from the Imperium. So, they are trying their best to cover it up! Hopefully, this will give you more insight as to why they take precedence.

 

Fallen only show up every so often, so Dark Angels still spend most of their time ruining the plans of the Imperium's enemies. The times where the Fallen do show up are dominating the Dark Angel's recorded history section as they are quite important. After all, if the Imperium's best chapter suddenly turned and left during an important campaign, wouldn't you think something was wrong?

[notmattlythgoe]

It would be pretty detrimental to the chapter and their successors. If the truth of the fall of Caliban was discovered, the chapters would be labeled as traitors and hunted down.

[elphilo]

The DA don't only hunt the fallen. They help the Imperium as much as any other Chapter. Just The Hunt takes precedence. It does because they don't want to let their secret out. It would be disastrous for the Legion if it were to come out. Possibly another Imperium Civil war. 

 

This is a really simplistic response though. 

[Tiger9gamer]

Hmmm, alright, I guess that's fair enough (got similar responses on Dakka for this) but is their any other fluff on them sticking around? maybe a campaign where some dakr angels proved pivotal and didn't have to go scurrying off?

[Phoebus]

Quite a few of them, actually.  Both in the current Codex and the previous one.  :)

 

Another thing to remember is that it's not JUST the fact that the Fallen turned during the Heresy.  Once the Dark Angels discovered the Fallen existed, they made it a priority to find hunt them, capture them, and redeem them so as to erase their own shame.  What complicates matters are the things they started doing in order to capture them.  The Dark Angels really got themselves in trouble the first time a member of the Inner Circle decided to abandon an objective or an ally to catch a Fallen.  Over a period of ten thousand years, they've probably done similar things hundreds of times.

 

Think of that as accruing additional interest on a loan.  Should the Dark Angels ever be caught, they wouldn't be facing judgment just for the Fallen... but for all the things they've done in the name of the Hunt.  That only increases the desperation associated with the Hunt.

[Tiger9gamer]

Could you give me page numbers for those campaigns?

And I'm beginning to see why they need to hunt so much. Wish all the extra fluff made it seem that the dark angels do other things

[Phoebus]

I bought the digital Codex, so it's kind of hard to offer you page numbers.

 

For the 4E Codex, though, you're looking at pages 19-21 (Battles of the Dark Angels).  In fact, only one of the campaigns described has the Dark Angels going after a Fallen... and even that one doesn't involve them abandoning someone.  In that edition, at least, the abandonment theme was discussed mostly in side-notes and background - most notably in the Successors section, under the Angels of Redemption.

[Tiger9gamer]

don't have the 4E codex, but it's still good to know! sorry to sound like a noob, but the 13th black crusade stuff kinda made the DA seem like stuck up guys instead of marines 

[Dahawi]

I do agree with you though. I see the Dark Angels as having to be more loyal than others to make up for the fallen, but it still means nothing while a fallen lives. It does bug me that it is the minority of their fluff focus on the fallen and not their valour, but I suppose for most non DAs it's the interesting twist that sets them apart from other SM chapters

[Brother Immolator]

As Asmodai put it: Praise be to the Emperor!! ;)

[Finn]

Hmm... Seems like somebody has been inducted into Inner Circle a little bit too early :)

 

Brother Tiger9gamer, time to wake up. We are not some shiny, noble paladins. We're loyal to the Emperor, not to the Imperium or the High Lords of Terra. That's why we lie, cheat and steal and abandon our posts to do what has to be done in order to keep that paranoid bureaucrats from trying to destroy us.

[Brother Immolator]

Hmm... Seems like somebody has been inducted into Inner Circle a little bit too early

Brother Tiger9gamer, time to wake up. We are not some shiny, noble paladins. We're loyal to the Emperor, not to the Imperium or the High Lords of Terra. That's why we preform our duties in a rather creative way to do what has to be done in order to keep that paranoid bureaucrats from trying to destroy us.

There fixed that for you, the way you put it was rather...embarashing brother.

[Captain Semper]

I have to agree with Azrael Turnbull and Finn... DAs are defined by the Hunt.

 

 

EDIT: Hey Phoebus, I got the digital version too - I think it's great! Now knowing me I'll get the hard copy too eventually but the digital was so much fun, I got the Chaos Codex too... :D

[Phoebus]

I'm a big fan of the digital Codices, Semper.  They're a step in the right direction - great accessibility, but I wish the price was a tad lower.  :)

[Tiger9gamer]

yeesh, fin O-o alright, I get it now.

[Raven Angel]

Well the way I see it, and it seams this is where they have been pushing the fluff, the 1st Legion never really broke up. Sure officially we broke up the Legion and officially we follow the codex Astates. Unofficially we have placed our different chapters on covert long term independent operating status. As far as conforming to codex size and organization well there never seams to be a shortage of Dark Angels does there; especially of Deathwing and Ravenwing troops. No wonder the High Lords think we are Legion building at times.

[Brother Immolator]

And don't forget that we may or not have created an entire chapter without authorization. Nobody seems to know where the guardians of the covenant came from...

[facmanpob]

And don't forget that we may or not have created an entire chapter without authorization. Nobody seems to know where the guardians of the covenant came from...

Muahahahahahahahaaa!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

This whole discussion is centred, for me at least, around the thing that makes the Unforgiven the most interesting of the 40k "factions". Their loyalty, on the surface, is unquestionable, and yet, beneath the surface they couldn't give two hoots about the Imperial bureaucracy as their loyalty is to the person of the Emperor alone. They have an exemplary record of defending the Imperium, and yet wouldn't give a second's pause if it came to abandoning an ally in favour of hunting one of the Fallen. The juxtaposition of these conflicting agendas make for a very 3-dimensional flavour, in a genre where there can be a tendency to paint pictures in terms of good and bad, black and white. The Unforgiven are most definitely many shades of grey (and I don't mean the truly awful book of a similar name! )

[Phoebus]

This whole discussion is centred, for me at least, around the thing that makes the Unforgiven the most interesting of the 40k "factions". Their loyalty, on the surface, is unquestionable, and yet, beneath the surface they couldn't give two hoots about the Imperial bureaucracy as their loyalty is to the person of the Emperor alone. They have an exemplary record of defending the Imperium, and yet wouldn't give a second's pause if it came to abandoning an ally in favour of hunting one of the Fallen. The juxtaposition of these conflicting agendas make for a very 3-dimensional flavour, in a genre where there can be a tendency to paint pictures in terms of good and bad, black and white. The Unforgiven are most definitely many shades of grey (and I don't mean the truly awful book of a similar name! )

I think it does the Unforgiven disservice when we say that they wouldn't pause even for a second when it comes to choosing between standing by their ally or going after a Fallen. For the Hunt to be a meaningful theme, the Dark Angels and their Successors need to be conflicted by their choices. If they're not conflicted, there's no point to it.

[facmanpob]

This whole discussion is centred, for me at least, around the thing that makes the Unforgiven the most interesting of the 40k "factions". Their loyalty, on the surface, is unquestionable, and yet, beneath the surface they couldn't give two hoots about the Imperial bureaucracy as their loyalty is to the person of the Emperor alone. They have an exemplary record of defending the Imperium, and yet wouldn't give a second's pause if it came to abandoning an ally in favour of hunting one of the Fallen. The juxtaposition of these conflicting agendas make for a very 3-dimensional flavour, in a genre where there can be a tendency to paint pictures in terms of good and bad, black and white. The Unforgiven are most definitely many shades of grey (and I don't mean the truly awful book of a similar name! )

I think it does the Unforgiven disservice when we say that they wouldn't pause even for a second when it comes to choosing between standing by their ally or going after a Fallen. For the Hunt to be a meaningful theme, the Dark Angels and their Successors need to be conflicted by their choices. If they're not conflicted, there's no point to it.

At the Siege of Vraks,

didn't the Angels of Absolution hang around in orbit for a while before carrying out a lightning raid on the Alpha Legion defences, capturing the enemy leader, after which they left without so much as a by-your-leave?

Also, in the book Ravenwing, they didn't exactly help out on

Piscina. Sammael actually chose to secure the DA bastion in order to recover information about the Fallen, before leaving the planet to its own fate, despite having the entire Ravenwing and 1/5 of 5th Company present.

Neither of these actions show any regard for allies or the average human.

I don't think there has to be conflict between the Hunt and other military action; the conflict arises from guilt over the need to carry out the hunt in the first place, and fear of what would happen if the Inquisition ever found out.

[Captain Semper]

I think the conflict is something you leave behind once you join the Deathwing. True, ordinary Marines may feel a conflict in certain circumstances but senior members of the Chapter must have accepted this burden in their conscience and never look back. Yes it makes DAs difficult to like but hey that's their appeal... :)

 

Truth being said, Boreas in the "Angels of Darkness" not only feels the conflict but decides against the Hunt and in favor of the citizentry... But I beleive, in retrospect, Boreas should be viewed as a faillure to the Chapter, while Nestor -a much more experience member of the Inner Circle- takes the correct stance. But he's overwhelmed and the DAs fail to catch the Fallen (and Cypher no less) plus their gene-stock was it? Furthermore Boreas was shown not to be solid as the words of Astelan appear to have affected him, something that an Interrogator Chaplain must have been immune to (because that's kind of their job description). So Boreas? "Bad DA". Nestor? "Good" DA. You see good and bad are defined based on the priorities of the Chapter (nothing else matters ;) ) not our own 2k morality.

 

Saying the good of the citizens is not a consideration for the DAs when it comes to the Hunt is not a disservice to the Chapter. I think it's the core, the essence of the Unforgiven. You can only justify their actions if you share their priorities i.e. being one of them (in an in-Universe context obviously :lol:). For all other they are mysterious at best, quasi traitorous at worst. Because they don't know...

[Finn]

The fluff leaves some space for interpretation. As far as I understand that some of us see the Unforgiven as "bad good guys", my take on DA is "good bad guys". Like a dark jedi supporting the Rebel cause in Star Wars. And I think that's what makes our Legion so awesome.

[Brother Immolator]

I will repeat yet again: Praise be to the Emperor!!

 

I believe that quote and the corresponding little story in the codex puts things into place. There is a... hierarchy of shorts as to how the DA evaluate the importance of a deployment/mission. Their top priority is the hunt. Everything else is secondary. I would venture a guess that destroying the enemies of the Emperor is a second, but the chasm between is vast. Protecting civilians is close to the bottom, but lets face it: Except some very striking exceptions most chapters place the same priority to lives. After all it is a cheap and infinite resource for the imperium. Don't start real life comparison please...

[Phoebus]

facmanpob,

 

Things is, you're referencing the outcome of those decisions - not the thought process behind them .  I'm not saying that the Dark Angels and their Successors would pass up on going after the Fallen.  I just don't think they make these decisions casually.  I think that the newest Codex backs me up on that, , as does 'Ravenwing'.

 

Captain Semper,

I disagree with your opening statement.  Why?  Because before the Deathwing you don't know enough to experience this conflict.  Now, I agree that Boreas was an aberration.  And I do agree with the idea that, as a Dark Angel (or Successor) progresses through the various rings of the Inner Circle, he will learn to make the hard choices that the Hunt requires.  What I'm saying is that they won't make those choices flippantly or casually.  Consider these two scenarios:

1. "Master Balthazar, we have gotten word of a Fallen two systems over.  We would be abandoning our allies in the middle of a crucial battle, though, and there's no doubt they'll be massacred without us."

"Why are you wasting my time with pointless details?  All squads - prepare for extraction to our Strike Cruiser, no questions asked!"

 

2. "Master Balthazar, we have gotten word of a Fallen two systems over.  We would be abandoning our allies in the middle of a crucial battle, though, and there's no doubt they'll be massacred without us."

"Are we the only representatives of the Inner Circle that can act on this?  Do I have a Deathwing squad or a Ravenwing squad seconded to my Company that I can split off to pursue this Fallen while the rest of us assist the Imperial Forces (since most of my battle-brothers in the Fifth Company cannot even be trusted with knowledge of this target)?  Or is there any way I can complete our current objective before we depart to hunt the Fallen?"
"The answer to all of those questions is no, Master Balthazar..."

"Sigh.  Curse the Fallen for bringing us to this.  Once more, the lives of loyal warriors must be sacrificed so that we can expunge our secret shame.  All squads - prepare for extraction to our Strike Cruiser, no questions asked!"

 

See what I mean?  To the Guardsmen being left to die, there's no difference between the two:  all they know is the Dark Angels simply left.  The fluff never argues that it's otherwise, either - hence why the Dark Angels are distrusted by those who know that their otherwise impeccable battle record is spotted with suspicious events.  The reader, though, is exposed to the motives of the various characters - just like in novelized fiction, comic books, movies, etc.  When you remove tension and conflict from the decisions the heroes, anti-heroes, and villains have to make, the stakes are correspondingly lowered.  :)