Dark_Dell Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 So i have been working on about a full deathwing army of 1850pt, been using different varriations of units and schemes. So since im pure DW i deep strike a lot of crap and dont have a whole lot on the field at the begining of the game depending on what i use. I have been looking at a lot of army lists and i dont see the land raider in very many so is it not worth the points and having the beefiness of the raider. Also i have been looking at some flyers i dont see a whole lot amazingness for the point values and i generally have the mind set of only taking one if my oponnent has one. I dont care much for the dark talon so it would only be the neph. Any suggestions would be much appricated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exsulis81 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I prefer the dark shroud personally . As to land raiders which one were you thinking of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro X Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 you still have to have 1/2 your army on the field at the start correct? meaning you can't 100% deep strike your stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Dell Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 In reading the codex and the deathwing assault rules i cant find anything that says half my terminators have to be on the map. Also i was thinking about putting my DW Knights and Beliel inside the land raider which to clarify i was thinking about the crusader. It is a lot of points but i just feel that it could soak up a lot of fire or get :cuss on by lance weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin_eX Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 you still have to have 1/2 your army on the field at the start correct? meaning you can't 100% deep strike your stuff That is still hotly debated and awaiting a FAQ. Probably best not to open that can o' worms in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CovertToaster Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 you still have to have 1/2 your army on the field at the start correct? meaning you can't 100% deep strike your stuff That is still hotly debated and awaiting a FAQ. Probably best not to open that can o' worms in this thread. There shouldn't be a debate as the codex has always overridden the main rule book. It should be a question of whether it's a typo or not so for now yes you can DWA all models in terminator armour. Also all drop pods must start in reserve and if they are a dedicated transport then the models can start embarked upon them. Does seem strange though that GW invented rules to combat these lists to stop people "unfairly" robbing opponents of a turn or two of shooting and now seem like they're reversing their stance, but time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polythemus Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 ignoring the dw assault question, id say use the LRC. it will actually protect your termies and will likely get them to the destination. what is the nephilim giving you? Nephy: 1x T-L str 9, 2x str 6 and 3xT-L str 5 all at the same target, or 5xstrength 5, 3xT-L str 5, and 2xstr 6 all at the same target, but cant be drop pod melta'd turn 1 but wont get 4 game turns of use. LR is giving you the ability to transport, has 4 tl str 6, optional multimelta, and 6xT-L (possible 12x) str 4, with PoTMS but wont be able to shoot it all, til you reach the aegis line and stop, (turn 3+ likely). Now your decision is gonna depend on your tactics. A LR is gonna be great if your transporting a hvy assault unit (DWK, or a banner) but is vulnerable to alpha strike. The unit inside will probably kill something either alpha strikers or its intended target. The Nephy is gonna give you some anti infantry, (which DW need) and is 60-70pts less. It might protect you from flyers but that is kinda unlikely. It will need to be boosted hardcore to have any real impact on the game. I feel like youd get more from the LRC, where as the nephilum is really no better than two typhoons, infact its almost worse cause it costs more. on a side note Id really re-consider the dark talon if were you. it has the ability to protect your termies by blinding, esp because every ones taking imp guard allies now I3 so 4+ chance that guard squad is weap skill 1, they'll have to hit you with those plasma vets rolling 6s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I would say a LRC or a Dark Talon. I have been known to run a 3 raider list but the 6th Edition glancing hit hull points rule really makes vehicles fragile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin_eX Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 If you are sticking to mostly pure Deathwing, I'd say the LRC is the way to go. It is tough, reliable and it makes a great carriage for things like DWKs (who are on of the few units we have that don't really gain much from DWA, other than getting to start close). The Neph mostly relies on who your regular opponents are. If you are facing a lot of AV12 airpower then it will have troubles (Helldrake, Vendetta, Stormraven, etc.) but if you are facing a lot of AV11/10 stuff then it does well enough for itself. The Dark Talon is a great piece of kit for assisting DW. It can blind troublesome units that may harm your Deathwing, and when you are moving in for the final assault on a key unit its debuff can tip the scales in your balance. But the LRC has a lot of general utility, and being able to make it venerable has a lot of up sides that will keep it chugging along at full speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgottenAngel Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 My suggestion is to not get either and pick up a Storm Eagle from FW. Its an assault vehicle, costs about the same as a Land Raider, can pop high armor vehicles and can take care of fliers. Hell it can even go after hordes if you need it too with Typhoon missile launchers and TL heavy bolters (if you don't replace them with TL Melta or 2X TL Lascannons). It can even be fluffy with Deathwing ig painted accordingly. However if you take a LRC (which I would over the Nephilim) I'd give your Command Squad the Banner of Devastation which will make your LRC fire 24 TL bolter shots and if your DW units are close you can get more out of your storm bolters (again there is controversy but it stormbolters are classified as being in the boltgun family). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haranin Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 LR or Storm Eagle if you need it. Currently with the rules I think pure foot DW is better; but LR do have a good long ranged AT role and transport role. LC are decent AT; CML just don't cut it. Storm Eagles are great.... if your reserves go well. You do need to hunt down the AA fast however. LRC are the best transport option, but are very short ranged. If you go LR, go for two one crusdaer and one hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare84 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 land raider crusader all the way. great dwk delivery, venerable makes it harder to alpha strike. and has enough twin linked to drop fliers if need be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I'm going to restate what everyone else here pretty much said. The land raider. You could even magnetize it so it could be a Redeemer/Crusader/Normal. Compared to the Jetfighter it adds more to a Deathwing army. The Jetfighter looks cool and looks okay on paper. But it really is bad. I took one in a game and while it did have a lot of dakka with the Avenger Bolter, once my opponents Vendettas came on I couldn't really do anything to them other than glancing them to death. Then I realized my AA weapon is a single Lascannon, while Valkyries get 3, for 80 points cheaper. Get the land raider, magnetize it, be the coolest kid in the shop :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haranin Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 The Nephiliam sucks compared to a storm eagle as well; the storm eagle is less then twice the cost and has more then three times the firepower and a nice boost to the armor as well. Not to mention strap hanging a 80 point 5 man squad with a melta gun for contesting/scoring purposes. Storm Eagle gets two twin linked lascannons, a twin multimelta and a vengence launcher (effectively two whirlwinds strapped to the flyer) for about 300 points; two Nephliam would run 360 and have one less antiarmor weapon and less antiinfantry weaponry. AV 11 v. 12 is a big deal on a flyer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polythemus Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 For the sake of clarity the rule for storm eagle are thus: Standard wargear Vengence, T-L hvy bolt Can replace t-l hvy boltr with t-l multimelta or typhoon ML Can add 4 hellstrike missle, or 2 t-l lascanon Assault vehicle Ceramite plates Potms Carrying capacity, 20 Now if i were you and i thought of adding a storm eagle, i would consider that you can load it up with a big 10 man of tacticals combat squaded for objective grabs, But i would want to be able to control my reserve rolls, so perhaps with azreal giving them an invul if they fall out the sky. Its difficult to justify a 300 pt flyer but it is pretty damn good considering, and will be even better once then vendetta and storm raven are priced apropriately. Also nothing in your army counts toward 50% reserve rule cause its all in the flyer. But beware it will take some work to build it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 The nephilim is a disappointment. Its just not worth its price and its not really good @ any one thing. If you take the megabolter its and ok ground attack plane against light infantry but its just bad in the anti air/tank departments. If you keep the lascannon its better at the anti-tank/flier but still not good and you lose the volume of fire for ground targets. Damned if you do, damned if you dont. If it was 50 pts cheaper it might have been worth it. Or better weapons. The raiders I'd say which one to use really depends on its purpose. For terminators hands down the crusader wins. With the new sacred banners I feel the hammers may be the way to go. Take for instance, the BoD. You'd think that those salvo hurricane are good and they are but.. Your already taking 3 or more tac squads to really take full use of the banner so you'd either clump them up around the raider so you can csquad for more target selections but with a smaller effective range. or leave them 10 man units and spread out to cover more area. Either way your gonna need more anti tank than dakka. having a Land Raider perform all of your anti tank duties for the tac squads and let your bolters shoot at things they can hurt. The nephilim is a disappointment. Its just not worth its price and its not really good @ any one thing. If you take the megabolter its and ok ground attack plane against light infantry but its just bad in the anti air/tank departments. If you keep the lascannon its better at the anti-tank/flier but still not good and you lose the volume of fire for ground targets. Damned if you do, damned if you dont. If it was 50 pts cheaper it might have been worth it. Or better weapons. The raiders I'd say which one to use really depends on its purpose. For terminators hands down the crusader wins. With the new sacred banners I feel the hammers may be the way to go. Take for instance, the BoD. You'd think that those salvo hurricane are good and they are but.. Your already taking 3 or more tac squads to really take full use of the banner so you'd either clump them up around the raider so you can csquad for more target selections but with a smaller effective range. or leave them 10 man units and spread out to cover more area. Either way your gonna need more anti tank than dakka. having a Land Raider perform all of your anti tank duties for the tac squads and let your bolters shoot at things they can hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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