Allies rules broken?

[Azash]

@dswanick - I'm not seeing the "may not be used to base contact an Allied model" part. Where is this from?

"Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units that cannot be charged, shot, targeted with psychic powers or have templates or blast markers placed over them.", BRB, pg.112

Base Move rules prohibit models from approaching closer than 1" to "enemy models". Charge moves are the moves that eliminate the 1" rule of the normal Movement rules and allow Base Contact. Charge moves can not be used in this way against Allied units. Pile In moves inherit this from Charge moves.

This is the point of my last post.

The rule states..."cannot be charged" this means you cannot charge them. To Charge a unit you must satisfy the following conditions for your action to be a charge.

Declare a charge, Resolve Overwatch, Roll Charge Range, and Charge move. This is defined on page 20 which defines what a charge is.

Pile in follows the rules of a charge move not a charge key point here charge move is defined on page 21 as a charge move not a charge. Which means they are different if they have different conditions, definitions, and rules.

So while the rules state you can not charge an allied unit, piling in does not count as a charge because it follows the rules of a charge move not a charge. So there is nothing in the allied rules that prevent you from piling into an allied unit. The rules prevent you from declaring a charge in same manner as they prevent you from directly targeting them with a shooting attack.

So then, you're OK with an Immobilized Dreadnought Charging?

Im ok with that if your ok with a chaplain giving rerolls to hit every time he piles in because he is charging and charging is an assault and apparently so is piling in.

[dswanick]

Im ok with that if your ok with a chaplain giving rerolls to hit every time he piles in because he is charging and charging is an assault and apparently so is piling in.

"Liturgies of Blood: On a Player turn in which he assaults, a Chaplain and all members of a squad he has joined can re-rolled failed rolls To Hit.", C:BA, pg.42

C:DA Chaplain:

Special Rules - Zealot (gives Fearless and Hatred), C:DA, pg.30

"Hatred A model striking a hated foe in close combat re-rolls all misses during the first round of combat - he does not get to make re-rolls for Hatred in subsequent rounds.", BRB, pg.37

 

So which is more likely :

-The allies rules are meant to force 90% of the allied combinations to lock themselves in close combat with their allies, killing each other off

-or all C:SM Chaplain's Litergies of Battle rule should have been errata updated to Hatred or re-written to conform to the Liturgies of Blood format, but wasn't?

 

(Actually, given GW's ability at writing tight, well-thought-out, logical rules - either is equally likely. But which interpretation is more likely to win you friends and gaming partners?)

 

Strictly by RAW:

- Pile In is a modified Charge move.

- Units can not use Pile In moves to get within 1" of an AoC/DA ally.

- Units with Liturgies of Battle get to re-roll all to-hit rolls in each Player turn in which they Charge or Pile In. (Guess that makes them almost as good as a Wolf Priest.)

 

So, yeah, I'm more "OK" with Chaplains getting re-rolls during Close Combat. Just remember, it won't work once the Chaplain is in base contact (or a chhallenge) as he'll no longer be Piling In to give his unit Hatred. I'll still take Oath of War as it affects Shooting as well as Close Combat.

[Azash]

 

Strictly by RAW:

- Pile In is a modified Charge move.

- Units can not use Pile In moves to get within 1" of an AoC/DA ally.

 

Not strictly by RAW mate. Units can not charge an ally and since a pile in is a modified Charge Move you can not use the AoC rules to prevent you from piling in since your piling in and not charging.

 

Rules as written - Charge is defined on page 20 and a charge move is defined on page 21. I have restated this four times now and it's clearly written in the rule book and clearly defined. I'm not going to waist anymore time repeating myself just have to wait for a FAQ.

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah the good old CC rules.  Utterly rubbish, from Charge Moves to Initiative Steps.

 

The whole section doesn't need a FAQ, but rather it needs to be rewritten.  In its entirety.

 

I cringe every time I try to excuse to myself how it got through editiing...