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Glaive Encarmine - how to run?


Chaplain Admetus

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For those that run Sanguinary Guard, what ratio of swords:axes have people been finding works best? I've currently got a squad of 5 with a fist, two swords and two axes (built the unit in late 5th edition) and am considering an arm swap or two. Is it worth keeping them as they are now, or should I scrap the axes altogether thanks to the fist? I'm thinking 3 swords, 1 axe, 1 fist might be the way to go, but also considering 3 swords, 2 axes to keep the points a bit trimmed.

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I run them 3 Swords 2 Axes, but that is to make an optimized All Comers for my local meta. I have no real reason to be hitting anything S8-10 AP2 with that unit, S5-6 AP2 does the trick just fine for everything anyone brings. Also, generally I only run 2 units of them, one with x4 melta with Dante and the other bare. So that x4 melta unit should be shooting anything it would have to punch anyway.

But if you're going ALL all comers, not just what you've got in your area then I would do what others have said and go 3 Sword 1 Axe 1 Fist.  

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I run all swords. One reason is they have no invulnerable save so you dont want to to go against terminators which is why you would need the ap2 from the axe or fist to begin with. I just hunt power armor and other med - light infantry. They excel at this well

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I run all swords. One reason is they have no invulnerable save so you dont want to to go against terminators which is why you would need the ap2 from the axe or fist to begin with. I just hunt power armor and other med - light infantry. They excel at this well

 

Artificer Armor is becoming a problem.  Grey Knight Terminators also suffer from the lack of AP2 weapons without spending , and they are the reason why I started taking a Sanguinary Guard troops. Same with Chaos Terminators. Power Weapons are standard, fists cost more if I'm not mistaken. And then the extra strength provided by having an axe is also helpful!

 

There are more units than just Power Fist / THSS terminators out there with a 2+ armor save. I agree with what you're saying 100% in the sense of not charging things that can kill you back. That comes into how you play and tactics. But you can't discredit having that Power Axe in the squad because of the existance of one unit.

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I run all swords. One reason is they have no invulnerable save so you dont want to to go against terminators which is why you would need the ap2 from the axe or fist to begin with. I just hunt power armor and other med - light infantry. They excel at this well

 

Artificer Armor is becoming a problem.  Grey Knight Terminators also suffer from the lack of AP2 weapons without spending , and they are the reason why I started taking a Sanguinary Guard troops. Same with Chaos Terminators. Power Weapons are standard, fists cost more if I'm not mistaken. And then the extra strength provided by having an axe is also helpful!

 

There are more units than just Power Fist / THSS terminators out there with a 2+ armor save. I agree with what you're saying 100% in the sense of not charging things that can kill you back. That comes into how you play and tactics. But you can't discredit having that Power Axe in the squad because of the existance of one unit.

 

True however thats why i bring a 4 x plasma gun honor guard squad :)

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Having at least one fist also means you can credibly threaten AV13/14 vehicles. Since they're only 10pts and don't lose you any attacks, I generally take at least one in my list if I'm running SangGuard. I'll usually run 2/2/1 or 3/1/1 Sword/Axe/Fist.

 

A fist dosnt have a credible chance of threating an av14 youll still need a 6 to glance it. you can spend those 10 points and get an inferno pistol and have a much better chance at blowing up said AV14 then you assault the squishy bits inside 

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This is all assuming banner is an auto-include, right? They really need the banner, math wise. 

 

For that reason, I put my banner on my I1 models to make sure the guy I leave in the far back of the squad lives until the bonus is used, and if I have to pull 2 casualties, I pull from the swords up front who already (hopefully) swung.

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I've not managed to play with mine yet (im just getting into Flesh Tearers) but has anyone considered using mauls? I can see having the 2+S as a real bonus. Maybe 2x Maul, 2x Swords and 1x Axe. 

I know the AP is less, but it only makes a difference against 3+ saves. Against 4+ or 2+ it is better then a sword. 

Its questionable if the Maul is a legal choice based on the FAQ.

 

If you are running them with Dante, I'd love a squad with spears and taking advantage of hit and run and then recharging.

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I've not managed to play with mine yet (im just getting into Flesh Tearers) but has anyone considered using mauls? I can see having the 2+S as a real bonus. Maybe 2x Maul, 2x Swords and 1x Axe. 

I know the AP is less, but it only makes a difference against 3+ saves. Against 4+ or 2+ it is better then a sword. 

Its questionable if the Maul is a legal choice based on the FAQ.

 

If you are running them with Dante, I'd love a squad with spears and taking advantage of hit and run and then recharging.

The FAQ says - 

            

Glaive Encarmines follow the rules as described in the Types of Power Weapon section on page 61 of the Warhammer 40,000

rulebook, but also have the Master-crafted and Two-handed special rules.

 

So I would take that we can follow the rules of "Types of Power Weapon Section" and choose one of the 4 types (as long as it is modelled it correctly) then add "Master Crafted" and "Two Handed"

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No the FAQ says

 

A: Glaive Encarmines follow the rules as described in the Typesof Power Weapon section on page 61 of the

Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, but also have the Master-crafted and Two-handed

special rules. They would therefore have the following profiles.

 

Range S AP Type

Glaive Encarmine - User 3 Melee,

(Sword) Master-crafted,

Two-handed.

 

Range S AP Type

Glaive Encarmine - +1 2 Melee,

(Axe) Master-crafted,

Two-handed,

Unwieldy.

 

 

 

..So yes it is indeed questionable wheter one can use mace.. I will agree it is not a huge advantage, if any.. But  the very word "glaive".. strongly implies a weapon with an egde and not a mace. I see this as just another attempt at 40k loopholeing sorry. So while you could glue on some maces on your sang guard, and could probably persuade some opponents to go along with it.... Is it really worth it for so small an advantage? 

 

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banis, on 04 Feb 2013 - 15:35, said:

No the FAQ says

 

A: Glaive Encarmines follow the rules as described in the Typesof Power Weapon section on page 61 of the

Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, but also have the Master-crafted and Two-handed

special rules. They would therefore have the following profiles.

 

Range S AP Type

Glaive Encarmine - User 3 Melee,

(Sword) Master-crafted,

Two-handed.

 

Range S AP Type

Glaive Encarmine - +1 2 Melee,

(Axe) Master-crafted,

Two-handed,

Unwieldy.

 

 

 

..So yes it is indeed questionable wheter one can use mace.. I will agree it is not a huge advantage, if any.. But the very word "glaive".. strongly implies a weapon with an egde and not a mace. I see this as just another attempt at 40k loopholeing sorry. So while you could glue on some maces on your sang guard, and could probably persuade some opponents to go along with it.... Is it really worth it for so small an advantage?

 

The problem is that the question the FAQ was answering isn't "what profile does a Glaive Encarmine have" but rather it specifically asked about Swords and Axes. Thus the answer including a Sword profile and an Axe profile was appropriate for the specific question asked but doesn't really say anything about whether Mauls and Spears are eligible. Thus the continued debate.

 

Furthermore a "Glaive" is typically a type of polearm (wikipedia link) that is far closer to a spear than a sword. I'd agree that a traditional mace wouldn't really look right in a SangGuard unit, but a long-handled warhammer of some sort (such as a Lucerne Hammer or Bec de Corbin) might look appropriate.

 

As for its efficiency in a Sanguinary Guard unit, I'd avoid using Mace Encarmines whether they're legal or not. +2S isn't worth losing AP3, especially for a unit with as few attacks as SangGuard get. If you really need the bonus strength, go for an Axe or spend the points on a Fist, since its likely that whatever you're in combat with won't get through the 2+ armour save before you get a swing, and with Furious Charge you'll end up at S6/9 on the charge anyway.

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