Iron Warriors with guard allies-need help w/ ideas

[BTIitiate]

First off, I want to preface this by saying that ATM I don't have access to the codex, and will have to wait till my next trip to the LGS to take a look at it/borrow from a friend.

 

My idea is to have an iron warriors army with guard allies (basilisks) with a pre-heresy siege feel, but the forgeworld book (both horus heresy and IA with the siege vanguard list) is out of budget and the LGS generally doesn't accept it. That said, my current best bet for large squads of bolter dudes is the CSM codex, and the general structure is something like this.

 

Warpsmith

-possible 2nd HQ

 

Terminators-help with these is needed, as other than termicide squads I have no idea what people run these with

 

Blobs of 20 marines with nurgle/tzeentch for survivability and the fearless icon

 

3x vindicators

 

guard detachment

-CCS, platoon, and basilisks

 

I know that heldrakes are popular right now, but I'm not willing to use them or any of the daemon-y models unless there is a good way to convert them from loyalist minis. All suggestions/help are appreciated

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

First off, welcome to the legion brother!

 

I'm pretty much the same as you, Iron Warriors with a guard detachment, and I don't like the look of the heldrake. I'm actually building a pre-heresy IW legion, and figured they could be my 40k army too.

 

As for the Heldrake, two options I've considered are  A) Use a helblade from Forgeworld as a Heldrake counts as (You could use it as a Helblade but the Heldrake rules are much better, and you don't have people moaning about forgeworld rules then) it's actually a similar price to a drake as well.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/hellblade40k.jpg

 

B) Convert your own Drake (what I think I'm going to do) See my Avatar pic, someone on this forum made one and it's very cool, I'm happy to post a link to it if you're interested? I plan on converting my own using the wings from the drake and a cockpit of one of the flyers.

 

My army will differ from yours though as my 40k army will use plenty of maggots cultists to soak up fire, my IG allies will be my janissaries of trained men, and there will only be a few IW marines, the lord, some chosen, maybe some raptors or termies. about it.

 

I'll also be using medusa's rather than basilisks as they work well in 30k, 1-3 as the heavy support choice for the IG allies.

 

A vindi, maybe two in the HS slots. at least one drake.

 

my chosen will probably run plasma, or I might have them as CC unit to represent a breaching squad along with my lord.

 

My army wont be particularly competitive, but it should be fun.

 

How did you want to run the army, do you have a specific theme, or a tactical element you want to run with, or do you just want it to stomp players? :D

[Shuggnuggath]

You don't seem to be using much chaos, might be worth considering a loyalist marine codex + guard. That way you can take advantage of being battle brothers.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Because I like my chaos codex :P I also like the heldrake rules, and I want cultists. I'm thinking of giving the cultists mark of nurgle and saying their hopped up on combat stimm's that the IW gave them, explains the toughness.

[Shuggnuggath]

Fair enough. 

 

I get the feeling that Marks are a bit over-costed on cultists. Mark of Nurgle on spawn is awesome though.

[Sception]

Marks are generally a no-go on cultists, and the mark of tzeentch in particular is generally a no-go on anything that doesn't already have an invulnerable.  Most things its even worth considering on, nurgle will be better more often and also cheaper.

 

Then again, MoN marines are generally outperformed by plague marines, but those require a MoN lord or Typhus to function.  Typhus isn't that bad though, and presents some interesting counts as options for your theme, but really requires a pretty big game to function, given his hefty price tag.

 

In general, you might consider making guard your main and allying in the chaos marines.  Guard to vehicle heavy and long range shooty better in general.

 

A single CSM allied detachment can net you:

 

Warpsmith

10 chaos space marines with dual plasma, maybe rhino

Heldrake

Dakkafiend

 

And still leaves a fair chunk of points open for guard, as well as space for another squad of marines, maybe some terminators, maybe even a land raider transport for the terminators if you really want.

 

 

As for how to field terminators: generally either termicide with combi-meltas or mid size squads (6ish, maybe), all with combi-plasma, and a mix of basic power weapons.  Maybe a chain fist on the champ.  If you take four or five, you can give them a dedicated land raider transport - I don't really recommend it since the tank's so overpriced, and you wouldn't be taking it as an assault transport.   It would be just for the AV14 hull points and pair of twin las.

 

 

For the warpsmith - his default equipment is pretty decent, though I do feel compelled to give him the 5++ save.  Because of his built in unwieldy weapon, MoS is a non-starter, but other than that any of the marks is decent.  I like to field him one of two ways, either marching up the field in some mid range infantry (plasma terminators or infantry CSMs), with a walker or two in support (dread/dakkafiend), maybe carrying the burning brand; or hanging back behind an aegis with some scoring fodder and static tank support (laspreds), keeping the troops in place with his Ld10 while manning an icarus with his BS5.  And of those two, I'm leaning towards the latter, lately.

 

As for the guard...  I haven't picked up the guard book yet, and haven't played with or against them yet in 6e, so I'm not the one to talk to, really.   But a few basilisks, a few russ, a couple vendettas, infantry platoon, maybe mix some tech priests in somewhere...  seems like it shouldn't be too hard to work something out.

[Gman]

Because I like my chaos codex I also like the heldrake rules, and I want cultists. I'm thinking of giving the cultists mark of nurgle and saying their hopped up on combat stimm's that the IW gave them, explains the toughness.

Do a bit of conversion on some IG models and make them cultists. Really, just get them converted with the appropriate pistol or gun that you want for them. Get a cool IG HQ model, and play him as a Dark Apostle, leading the "cultists". Bam, your gaurd loyalist CSM army with only one codex.

[BTIitiate]

The reason I'm not using the loyalist codex is because I can't take squads of 20 marines and as cool of HQs. In addition, marks give me flexibility on my squads. The general theme is going to be large squads of marines and a few terminator squads (saving for cataphracts) marching up the field behind vindicators and supported by an artillery battery.

 

The play style will be an attrition one, so I have a couple of questions. First, can you take rhinos for squads larger than 10? They would make good cheap cover. Second, can warpsmiths take the burning brand?

[the jeske]

 

The reason I'm not using the loyalist codex is because I can't take squads of 20 marines and as cool of HQs.

but taking 20 man squads sucks and could you define cool , because there is no non special character SW cant make that isnt just as good or better . And they battlebrother IG . they can technicly take big squads too .

 

 

. First, can you take rhinos for squads larger than 10?

yes . there is a question why would you want to do that , but it is legal.

 

 

 

 

Second, can warpsmiths take the burning brand?

 

he can take artefacts .but again why take him at all , when a lord does the same , can cost less and can make cult units troops .

[Phoros]

Stormtalons make pretty good "loyalist" Blight Drones, but as you said, Forge World isn't an option for you (?)

[minigun762]

What you want is doable but I have to agree that you're not really embracing the strong points of the current codex.

 

The Warpsmith and 20 man squads are both sub optimal units and marks are of questionable value vs taking a cult lord and the appropriate cult troops instead.

 

That said, I think you could accomplish your basic goal using the IG to provide cheap long range firepower and back field scoring units and your CSMs to provide aggressive and mobile units.

[BTIitiate]

Thanks for the feedback. I know I'm not really going for the strong points of the codex, but I've given up on trying to be competitive in 40k (I do also play templars after all :P ). I still play in tournies to get games, and if I win some, that's great. The list is definitely supposed to be a fun one, as if they can answer the question of blobs then they'll be fine, if not, I might make it across the table.

 

To answer some of the questions that have been asked.

 

"Cool" HQs: What I meant by this is that I can have a cheap starting hero, then kit him out however I want (don't want to play SW, would end up spamming long fangs and I wouldn't enjoy it, also don't like the theme. Hazard stripes>fur coats). This was one of the things that attracted me to templars, and chaos can do the custom HQ probably better than BT now. For example, the warpsmith model appeals to me, and I have an old warsmith model on order from my LGS, so I will take the chance to use them. I would consider them for techmarines, but the vanilla SM don't appeal to me outside of the special characters, drop pods w/ironclads, and vanguards.

 

20 man squads: I want my army to have the feel of  large amounts of infantry slowly advancing up the field behind siege equipment (vindicators) and supported by the guard artillery, and this book I feel lets me do it best. Also, a $50 codex is a lot cheaper than a 70 GBP horus heresy book (whatever that is in USD)

 

Rhinos for squads of 20: Cheap in points, used as movement blockers/cover, and if for some unknown reason the rhinos are still there when my squad is half size, they can hop in.

 

Not using plague marines instead of MoN marines: The death guard army is a down the road project for when FW finally releases a mortarion model (if it's any good) and I can find a buyer for my soul to finance it.

 

Forgeworld not an option: My local meta doesn't accept FW rules (we're pretty competitive, and I would honestly rather use normal codices myself except for the siege vanguard list), and the models are going to take me a while to afford (must..have...cataphracts) as I've got 2 50 point cryx lists to build for warmachine first.

 

I hope this answers anything you were still wondering about if there's more feedback to be had. If not, thanks again.

[Dar'kir]

I play a IW army and was also considering IG allies. You could take a IG Inf Platoon then use the combined squad rule to make a up to 50+ man squad. Also Griffons and Basilisks come 1- 3 for one heavy choice. The IG list has a boat load of fun funny stuff to kick around with, let your inner Warsmith run free.