godking Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 There seems to be a lot of speculating based on Angel Exterminatus and Betrayer that Vulkan was captured. Yet in the first heretic Erebus specifically says that no Primarchs where captured at istvann V which is why they needed the custodians alive as a direct blood link to the emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Vulkan wasnt catured... He turns up after Istvan. As for direct blood link to the Emperor - what was wrong with blood from any of the traitor primarchs??? (note - I havent read that book) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3296299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 There seems to be a lot of speculating based on Angel Exterminatus and Betrayer that Vulkan was captured. Yet in the first heretic Erebus specifically says that no Primarchs where captured at istvann V which is why they needed the custodians alive as a direct blood link to the emperor. In AE, there is a mention of a prison built by Perturabo for a very special prisoner. Also in Betrayer Angron says Vulkan will soon wish to die. And i wouldn't trust Erebus. He's a viper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3296304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Vulkan wasnt catured... He turns up after Istvan. As for direct blood link to the Emperor - what was wrong with blood from any of the traitor primarchs??? (note - I havent read that book) Traitor primarchs don't donate their blood. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3296306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 There seems to be a lot of speculating based on Angel Exterminatus and Betrayer that Vulkan was captured. Yet in the first heretic Erebus specifically says that no Primarchs where captured at istvann V which is why they needed the custodians alive as a direct blood link to the emperor. In AE, there is a mention of a prison built by Perturabo for a very special prisoner. Also in Betrayer Angron says Vulkan will soon wish to die. And i wouldn't trust Erebus. He's a viper. Erebus is a viper but he had no reason to lie about primarchs being captured or not. And the capture of a Primarch would be big news which would be commonly known. Vulkan wasnt catured... He turns up after Istvan. As for direct blood link to the Emperor - what was wrong with blood from any of the traitor primarchs??? (note - I havent read that book) None of the traitor primarchs not even Lorgar was willing to donate their blood. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3296363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 There seems to be a lot of speculating based on Angel Exterminatus and Betrayer that Vulkan was captured. Yet in the first heretic Erebus specifically says that no Primarchs where captured at istvann V which is why they needed the custodians alive as a direct blood link to the emperor. In AE, there is a mention of a prison built by Perturabo for a very special prisoner. Also in Betrayer Angron says Vulkan will soon wish to die. And i wouldn't trust Erebus. He's a viper. Erebus is a viper but he had no reason to lie about primarchs being captured or not. And the capture of a Primarch would be big news which would be commonly known. Erebus being Erebus, I wouldn't put it past him to have his own ulterior motives and generally being a deceitful git to pretty much everyone. Having no reason to lie doesn't stop him from doing it anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3296389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
overloard Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Quote from Nick Kyme's blog Q. Vulkan Lives. Other than the obvious, what can we expect from this? Without giving thestory away, it’s a two pronged narrative in which a double storylineinterweaves with the other. It features several primarchs, mostprominently Vulkan and Konrad Kurze, and as such the story examines therelationship between these two characters, chipping away at the psycheof both. I think it pretty much proves that Vulkan is indeed "uniquely capable prisoner" Perturabo was talking about/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3296554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Quote from Nick Kyme's blog Q. Vulkan Lives. Other than the obvious, what can we expect from this? Without giving the story away, it’s a two pronged narrative in which a double storyline interweaves with the other. It features several primarchs, most prominently Vulkan and Konrad Kurze, and as such the story examines the relationship between these two characters, chipping away at the psyche of both. I think it pretty much proves that Vulkan is indeed "uniquely capable prisoner" Perturabo was talking about/ Proof is a dirty word, brother. This is evidence that could be used in the argument for Vulkan being the "uniquely capable prisoner", but it isn't infallible and your assumption is not guaranteed to be correct. You might be correct, granted, but this is not 'proof' at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3296586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
overloard Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Proof is a dirty word, brother. This is evidence that could be used in the argument for Vulkan being the "uniquely capable prisoner", but it isn't infallible and your assumption is not guaranteed to be correct. You might be correct, granted, but this is not 'proof' at all. My mistake. Of course, proof is too strong a word here, though I will be very surprised if it turns out to be something completely different. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3296640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Sometimes, authors like doing the old switcheroo. Showing you one thing so you expect A and instead you get B, which adds surprise and an unknown element to story telling. Take nothing for granted unless you have direct, unequivocal quotes from the source material, especially in a long planned series of books like the HH. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3296656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Whoa whoa. I take exception with the idea that this series has been "long planned" or even "planned". That seems insulting to people who actually plan things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3296660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Well... alright. There's meetings involved occasionally. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3296669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darog Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Vulkan wasn't captured, he just disappeared and no one knew where he was, including the traitors. He then appeared, it is stated in the Codex of SM and in the cycle of salamanders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3296986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Vulkan wasn't captured, he just disappeared and no one knew where he was, including the traitors. He then appeared, it is stated in the Codex of SM and in the cycle of salamanders. Well the HH novels often don't line up with earlier sources. Two things the novels have said about Vulkan are his legion couldn't find him after the drop site massacre. And Angron (i think) comments that soon Vulkan will wish he were dead. Implying that at least some of the traitors know of Vulkans circumstances. There is also a bit about Perturabo building a labyrinth or some such for the Night Haunter to house a "special" preisoner. Some believe the "special" prisoner to be Vulkan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3298840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 It's entirely possible that the Night Lords deliberately kept Erebus and the Word Bearers out of the loop IF they did take Vulkan alive, considering that at the end of The First Heretic the VIII seemed ready to go to war with the XVII. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3298906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Vulkan wasn't captured, he just disappeared and no one knew where he was, including the traitors. He then appeared, it is stated in the Codex of SM and in the cycle of salamanders. Well the HH novels often don't line up with earlier sources. Two things the novels have said about Vulkan are his legion couldn't find him after the drop site massacre. And Angron (i think) comments that soon Vulkan will wish he were dead. Implying that at least some of the traitors know of Vulkans circumstances. There is also a bit about Perturabo building a labyrinth or some such for the Night Haunter to house a "special" preisoner. Some believe the "special" prisoner to be Vulkan. Or it could simply be that Vulkan is unaware of the fact of just how badly mauled his Legion really is. And "disappeared" in the context of a modern view looking back at the past simply means that wherever Vulkan was, was either never recorded or was struck from history by say, the Inquisition. For all we know, only 200 Salamanders survived Istvaan V and Vulkan spent a great deal of the Heresy at Nocturne trying to rebuild his strength. Of course, that theory is simply based on what I know. EDIT: Let's look at what we know. 1.) There is a period in the Heresy era in which Vulkan's whereabouts are completely unknown to us, the readers. 2.) The blood ritual Erebus is talking about requires a sacrifice. I could be wrong but I seem to recall that fact so that's why none of the Traitors volunteered. 3.) Lorgar lies to Guilliman and says that Vulkan and Corax are dead but later on acknowledges to Angron that he is still alive but "he will soon wish he was dead." indicating an event that will occur, not an event that is occuring. 4.) Perturabo built a prison for Curze, a prison we have yet to see I might add as so far the Night Lords activities have consisted of going back and forth with the Dark Angels and then splitting into six "Great Companies." 5.) That prisoner is a "uniquely capable individual." Now, it's just me but when it comes to inntelligence levels, all of the Primarchs seem to be rather smart with only the occasional blunder. If one can figure out the prison, then so can another. Glean from that what you will. 6.) Nick Kyme is apparently writing a story featuring Curze and Vulkan. But one could technically say that Deliverance Lost featured Curze as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3298911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Yeah Sevatar was rather unfriendly with Argal Tal at the massacre. I can see the Night Haunter giving two flips what Lorgar or Eribus wanted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3298930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 But part of that is simply from the fact that at the time, the Night Lords were very anti-warp taint. Even now in 40k, the Night Lords might be more accepting of the taint, but the majority would still be against "faith." Although that wouldn't stop a willful Night Lord from being faithful like Krieg Acerbus or the Exalted were. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3298932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fission Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 We were discussing the same thing in this thread : http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page-3?gopid=3181054&do=findComment&comment=3181054 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3299245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Not exactly. That thread was simply wondering what BL was going to do with the story of Vulkan. This thread is suggesting what will be done based on internet speculation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3299258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Not exactly. That thread was simply wondering what BL was going to do with the story of Vulkan. This thread is suggesting what will be done based on internet speculation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3299260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fission Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Ok my bad (my english is not so good ) . Apparently , Vulkan will be put in a special jail ..... ok that's fine . Story with Curze : ok . Nick Kyme have talked about this on his blog . But on the same blog there is that : Q. In your HH writing, will we ever see Vulkan wielding/planning/making/thinking about his relics? Or the Tome of Fire? Possibly and yes. So I am asking myself : will we learn HOW Vulkan manage to make all the prophecies in his Tome of Fire ? Because of what we know , he is not a psyker . So how he manage to predict event which happens in 10K years ... I hope the next novel will tell us How . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3299280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 It's entirely possible that the Night Lords deliberately kept Erebus and the Word Bearers out of the loop IF they did take Vulkan alive, considering that at the end of The First Heretic the VIII seemed ready to go to war with the XVII. Erebus is a snake but he is not dumb and the capture of a Primarch is not something that you can just hide. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3299324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 It's entirely possible that the Night Lords deliberately kept Erebus and the Word Bearers out of the loop IF they did take Vulkan alive, considering that at the end of The First Heretic the VIII seemed ready to go to war with the XVII. Erebus is a snake but he is not dumb and the capture of a Primarch is not something that you can just hide. It isn't? Why's that? I'd like to hear your reasoning on this as I'm pretty sure if you want to hide something in an area the size of the galaxy (well, theoretically), chances are you can, provided you've got the resources and the inclination. :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3299350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 It's entirely possible that the Night Lords deliberately kept Erebus and the Word Bearers out of the loop IF they did take Vulkan alive, considering that at the end of The First Heretic the VIII seemed ready to go to war with the XVII. Erebus is a snake but he is not dumb and the capture of a Primarch is not something that you can just hide. It isn't? Why's that? I'd like to hear your reasoning on this as I'm pretty sure if you want to hide something in an area the size of the galaxy (well, theoretically), chances are you can, provided you've got the resources and the inclination. It's entirely possible that the Night Lords deliberately kept Erebus and the Word Bearers out of the loop IF they did take Vulkan alive, considering that at the end of The First Heretic the VIII seemed ready to go to war with the XVII. Erebus is a snake but he is not dumb and the capture of a Primarch is not something that you can just hide. It isn't? Why's that? I'd like to hear your reasoning on this as I'm pretty sure if you want to hide something in an area the size of the galaxy (well, theoretically), chances are you can, provided you've got the resources and the inclination. Well Erebus did find out about Fabius secret laboratory easily in Fear to thread. Erebus was also present at Isstvan V if a Primarch was capured he would have heard about it. Erebus has a habit of popping up in places you dont expect him to pop up and finding out what is supposed to be hidden from him. Next to that if a Primarch was captured it would seem logical that through communion with the warp gods that he would know about it. I can see the Nightlords trying to keep the capure of a Primarch from Erebus but not succeeding in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270638-vulkan-captured/#findComment-3299363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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