Incoming Heresy models

[Greyall]

Well, if you're aiming for premium sculpts, you get both the best sculptors and, equally important, the loosest deadlines. Also, it's easier to work on your own terms and subject, all of which contribute to a nicer end product. Although the subject tends to vary less at FW, at least these days.

 

I hope this doesn't make it seem as if I'm taking even a bit of merit from FW's artists, they're amazing. I just feel it's a harsh barb to throw at GW's sculptors. Their sculpts are great, we've had Vilitch, the Fantasy Chaos Lord, the new Chaos models, the new Space Marine models, the Dark Eldar, the Daemons, the Tau, the Eldar, the new Lizardmen...all of them are overall great, with some brilliant models there. Some of the "mistakes" you see seem to be derived from things like deadlines preventing further refinement, both with the concepts and the sculpts. It's not easy to come up with new models, poses or gear, it's even harder to do it on the scale GW does and the schedule they've been following.

[Entei]

The picture might not do the Kor Phaeron model justice. I bet he looks more dynamic and menacing from a better angle. The Erebus model is perfect, he really looks like a fanatical preacher.

[Balthamal]

It wasn't meant to be a barb at GW's design team. Some of the plastic they've put out lately has been outstanding, the new sternguards for example look likely to exceed expectations and the same applies to the vanguard. What I probably should have included was a comparison, mainly something like the Praetor double pack compared to Belial, latter doesn't even come close to the former. It's not universal by any means but, to me at least, FW is still leading the way in terms of actual sculpts

[Greyall]

I agree, of course, but that's the whole point of FW: GW throws in a Belial, FW releases Huron or Tyberos. GW makes a Gorgon, FW shows a jaw-dropping Bloodthirster.

 

It's like Toyota and Lexus and many other brands who have a special division for high-end products.

 

PS: Of course, this doesn't mean one should quit pointing it out when GW puts out sub-par models which've clearly been rushed.

[Balthamal]

The centurions spring to mind but the embers are still glowing on that particular flame storm so not keen to reignite them.

 

Makes me curious what's going to happen going forward since A D-B made a comment in another forum about GW taking a much tighter grip on the reigns of both FW and BL and making some serious effort to incorporate them into the "day to day" as it were

[Greyall]

Hmm, wonder what it means, as well. All three of the companies are currently pumping models/stories at a much greater pace than usual, so that might be it. As far as complementing each other's releases, only BL does that - and only towards GW, to my memory, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

FW has their independence greatly preserved, it seems, though they seem to be managing various projects pretty well - especially since one of said projects is the goddamned Heresy. Ultimately, letting FW have their way (or as much of their way as possible) also ensures more variety and, with the Heresy, a continuous stream of sales.

[Balthamal]

I just took it to mean that when it came to fluff they wanted to be working from the same page, since the mess with the csm dex basically contradicted the events in the HH series from BL but now i'm beginning to wonder whether they want it matching from a design aesthetic too.

 

Can't remember which forum, or even which site, it was posted but Alan Bligh was quoted as saying that Betrayal was/has been a success beyond their wildest fantasies which has led to them almost doubling the amount of people working on the Legion centric product lines so expect a fair amount of autonomy in that direction, which coupled with how well IA12 was received (along with IX and X) and I honestly don't see why GW would try and collar them

[Greyall]

Overall, I prefer FW's fluff - or rather, their way of telling it - but they're aiming at different goals, I think, and it pays to have both. While GW and its codici provide us with propaganda and glorious legends of each army/race, FW has a much more raw and analytical approach. The difference is similar to that of an Imperial/Eldar/Tau/etc. scrivener from a researcher a thousand years after the Imperium ended.

 

Reading both approaches adds yet another layer of skepticism to 40K. Let us welcome it.

[Balthamal]

You'll find no argument from me on that score. From reading the fluff section of the Fall of Orpheus, you actually got a sense of the total horror of what was unfolding across an entire sector never mind a star system.

 

In comparison to that you have that Necron codex which wasn't awful per say but looks like it was written by a 5 year old with crayon when held up to the IA stuff

[Greyall]

Yeah, there's been a tendency to go overboard, a bit.

 

That's why your first read of an Imperial Armour book is a bit of a shock, especially for a power armour-addict. You start seeing Marines mowed down by Imperial Guard rebels / or Marine Rebels being killed by loyalist Guard and "realism" hits you in the face with a las-punch.

[Balthamal]

I'll be very interested to see if the trend continues with Massacre (I skipped out on Betrayal but will begin my collection with Vol II) since it's undoubtedly the greatest single slaughter of Astartes thats ever been. Think someone said that you're talking about 300k-400k dead in a day. 

[Greyall]

Massacre will finally show how the Isstvan V fight wasn't just "Second wave of traitors opens fire - everyone dies". I'll finally be looking at a 40K map with some attention and understand how the loyalists managed some sort of regrouping.

 

I just hope there's more artwork than in Betrayal, that was my only complaint. With colossi like Adrian Smith and Paul Dainton working for GW, I don't think it'd be asking for too much for them to put their art on FW's publications.

[Kol Saresk]

Yep. Alan Bligh was quoted in a blog that was posted in this thread back during the HH Weekend as saying the thing aout autonomy. He also said that when it comes to the fluff, FW and BL would be like a joint operation. Make sure both coincide properly.

 

And I am willing to bet the trend continues. Just look at what Betrayal did with the numbers. The XVI were 130,000 to 170,000 Marines before the Betrayal. Afterwards, you get 70,000 to 110,000. Worst case scenario, Horus lost 100,000 Marines in that incident. 60,000 at the best case. The Raven Guard only have 1,000 survivors(at least, that's all Corax knows of; At least five individual survivors are recorded by my count). Let's say the RG went with just 60,000 troops. That's 59,000 casualties. Plus 10K IH Veterans just in Morlocks(rest of the clan is undetermined in number). Plus the Salamanders. Plus the losses those three Legions managed to inflict. Might only be 300K in the worst case scenario, but put it tha it is inter-Legion wrfare and you have devastation that hasn't been seen sine the Unification of Terra when the Emperor was conquering the Techno-Barbarians with His Thunder and Lightning Regiments.

[depthcharge12]

I think simon egan really loved what the guy who sculpted erebus did.

 

In addition to getting Kor Phaeron i think we can begin to see more sculpts coming from this guy I hope :)

 

it would be cool to have this guy as egan's protege

[Greyall]

So long as they never rush a Primarch, I'm all for giving another sculptor his chance. Especially the sculptor who did that Erebus.

 

If for no other reason than Simon Egan surely being under a ton of [self-induced] pressure with each new Primarch.

[depthcharge12]

I would like to see a friendly rivalry begin between them to see who can out do the other with a better model.

 

everybody wins :)

[Kol Saresk]

Except Mr. and Mrs. Wallet.(pronounced "Wall-ay", according to the misses)

[Greyall]

I'm sure such a thing's bound to exist even if they're not all sculpting Primarchs. In fact, it's even more bound to exist in that way, it's a workspace...I certainly hope not in any way that turns sour, though.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of the Fulgrim model, and I mean it literally. I like it, it's a tremendous work of miniature sculpting, but the pose is not to my liking. When I look at it I recognize something that tends to happen with my drawings. A compromise - and it hurts a good bit.

 

Simon Egan said he didn't manage to give Fulgrim a smug (or serene, can't remember) expression and I fully understand him. It's incredibly difficult to work with iconic characters who draw everyone's looks and expectations. When I was drawing one Primarch after another, no matter how much praise I got, the pressure to both settle for a pose/wargear/expression/etc. and be satisfied with the end result was enormous. You can't hide the weapons, the armour must be so and so, that aesthetic element is part of the character yet completely obscures a vital part. And you can't botch the thing since Primarchs are the most important human characters in the setting.

 

Of course, I can't prove Mr. Egan went through that with Fulgrim, not until I get the honour of talking to him. But it's reasonable to think he loves both 40K and his job and, for someone in the creative area, that means pressure - the good kind and the bad kind, both of which you can't work without.

 

I'd actually like to know how he dealt with the maelstrom about Fulgrim's face. If anything, FW's Forgeworld (somewhat violent) reaction should give some indication of the importante they put into making the Primarchs.

[Conn Eremon]

He actually reacted rather well, from the perspective of those disappointed by that model. He picked out one girl's reaction to his model, about how it'a good but not how she imagines Fulgrim to be, remarked that he felt like he had failed her and so remade Fulgrim. The new one, while not in a battle pose, has all of the smug haughtiness you expect in Fulgrim and is, for those disappointed in the first model, a resounding success.

[Greyall]

True, though it didn't end up as the retail version. Yet, at least. One can hope.

[Conn Eremon]

I'm sure something will be done. I mean, it's all right there, ready. Be pointless to just let it gather dust.

[Greyall]

Wouldn't censor them for taking that as a sign to release some limited edition second sculpts of Primarchs.

[Conn Eremon]

Honestly, some really should have those. I mean, look at Ferrus Manus. Are you really going to give Fulgrim three, four models, but leave the Iron Hands with just the one? Why can't you have two based around the Great Crusade? All jokes of a headless model aside, it'd be fair and marketable.

[Greyall]

I prefer if they take care of those sculpts that are 'inevitable', first. Meaning most loyalists and a few traitors get one, the rest of the traitors get two (for the most part). Then they can go for second sculpts on whomever they wish.

 

Unless Simon Egan has a a mid-sleep epiphany. In that case, chain him to a table and get it done (or he might do it himself).

[Conn Eremon]

Some sculpts should be done more than most, aye. A second Ferrus Manus would only be a perk, while a second, daemon prince Fulgrim would be a requirement.

 

God, can you imagine the poor wallets of those who feel they must buy all of them, when the end number could conceivably be fifty?