Gabriel Seth, where does he fit in?

[Blood Reaver]

   I've recently been looking at Gabriel Seth as a possible non-generic HQ option for my blood angel army and he seems pretty awesome both fluff and kit wise. His special rules are just so badass and fitting to his character, roll a 1 and he shoves his powered boots up the guy's ass for failing so hard, and his massive chainsword strikes at s8. Also hes awesome for taking on zergs. 

   However for every reason i can think of i cant for the life of me find out where he would fit in a blood angels list. He cant take a jet pack (stupid if you ask me) so that means right off the bat hes restricted from half the things that make Blood Angels awesome to field, that and hes foot slogging unless you put him in transport. But rhinos and razerbacks are kinda crappy for assault troops like Seth & Co now in the 6th edition. Drop pods have the same issue, they come in and get shot up. Land Raiders are too expensive to use on an HQ and assault unit unless they are terminators but that would make it ridiculously expensive.

   On top of that, his defensive stat line is below average compared to most SM HQ or average compared to the generic brands. 3+ armor save with 4+ invulnerable, even CAPTAIN tycho has artificers armor while Seth is a chapter master which is kinda fishy if you ask me. His offensive stats are better, strength 8 lets him dent even land raiders but the rules also make it so that he can never receive str bonus, also since his weapon lacks AP3 it means against another space marine hes kinda crapped out let alone terminators. 

  But the main issue i find with him is that, its hard to pair him with another unit that would fit and complement him. Putting him with honor guards or death company still creates the issue of foot slogging or getting stuffed in a land raider. Pairing him with terminators make it very expensive just to make him more useful.

  So in short, i cant see a justification for taking Seth as an HQ choice because he just doesnt seem to work well with the rest of the BA Codex Units. Can anyone see how he might be used more effectively? 

[JamesI]

If I were to run Seth, most of the time he would be with a DC unit.

[Razblood]

Never forget that he also has Rending!

 

Personally I have him running with a barebones Honour Guard in a Razorback, but I would definitely say attaching him to a DC unit and sticking them in a Raven would make for some excellent murder potential (With a chaplain - reroll hits, reroll wounds S8 rending :devil: )

 

In the end Seth is not a game winning HQ, but he is good at tying up large horde units (Orks, Guard, Nids) and nearly any HQ who fails at least one armour save suffers Instant Death (and if you get a rending wound they are toast :) ).

 

He is a good HQ for smaller armies and whilst Tycho is statistically better for nearly the same points Seth is imo a lot more characterful, plus his nutshot on a 1 rule is hilarious if you take out your opponent's IC's with it :lol:

[Blood Reaver]

Chaplain's reroll wounds only work for death company models not seth, the reroll hits works for him though. Also rending can still be stopped by invulnerable saves / Feel no Pain, but it is a nice bonus. His instant death only works on models with toughness 4 or lower which pretty much excludes alot of HQ units, which correct me if im wrong, is most of the multi wound models in the game =( Hes a pretty awesome unit in his own rights, especially against guard/nids/orks but he just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the blood angels as a high speed heavy hitting codex (hes a pretty heavy hitter but lacks speed without significant support). 

[Razblood]

Chaplain's reroll wounds only work for death company models not seth, the reroll hits works for him though. Also rending can still be stopped by invulnerable saves / Feel no Pain, but it is a nice bonus. His instant death only works on models with toughness 4 or lower which pretty much excludes alot of HQ units, which correct me if im wrong, is most of the multi wound models in the game =( Hes a pretty awesome unit in his own rights, especially against guard/nids/orks but he just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the blood angels as a high speed heavy hitting codex (hes a pretty heavy hitter but lacks speed without significant support).

Um...most HQ units including MEQ are T4, unless they have MoN or some other boost, but Captain/Lord level and for the most part even Special Characters are only T4.
Invulnerable saves are a bit of a pain for Seth, but even with those all it takes is one failure and they are so much meat unless they have Eternal Warrior which is pretty rare nowadays. As far as Feel no pain is concerned he ignores it unless they are T5 or more.

It is fair to say that he doesn't really fit in with the fast and hard nature of the BA, but then again Tycho is in the same position given that he needs a ride to get around.

You are right on the Liturgies of Blood, I just misremembered it

[SamaNagol]

He fits in your display case. And that is where he stays.

[Blood Reaver]

Im looking through most of the codex (pdfs ftw) most of the non-generic HQs seem to have toughness 5 or above, tyranids, orks, SM, a few necrons, with the exceptions to tau, eldar and maybe sisters (didnt check for sisters). Went through some of the elites, a good portion of the multi wound units seem to be over toughness 4. Just went through the rulebook for feel no pain, didnt notice that the cant block instant death, awesomeness =). 

 

edit: i suppose a 160 point HQ unit shouldnt exactly be able to just steam roll over 200+ point units, but like i said the main thing that really gets me is the fact that he is so attractive for kit (the instant death being LOCKED at strength 8 makes it feel kinda gimmicky tbh) but so hard to effectively use in a codex that he is meant to fit into, if they would just tack a jet pack onto him i would roll this guy as my main HQ choice because would much more smoothly transition in with the rest of the blood angels.

[sonofpollux]

My thought was this:

Assault Squad(10)
Meltagun 
Plasmagun
Lightning Claws x2 
Meltabombs

I know its 415 points including Seth, but you need to pair him with a high price unit to really capitalize on his strengths. Having ten other guys with him lets him use his "Ferocious Instincts" special to a greater effect.. I also have him running out of a Land Raider Redeemer, but it adds AP 3 Flamestorm Templates and Frag Assault Launchers to the mix. This is better for an assault unit including Seth, giving the ability to soften up a unit with AP 3 Templates before an Assault phase.

[Blood Reaver]

Thats almost 600+ points to try and make one HQ choice effective, if you ask me thats alot D=. Also its a waste to put him with an assault squad seeing that he doesnt have a jet pack and effectively makes your assault marines into tactical marines =/

[SevenExxes]

10 DC

Chaplain

Raven

 

I'm actually tempted to try this myself now.

[SamaNagol]

The first time it gets shot down.... you'll never try it again

[SevenExxes]

I haven't had my Raven shot down once in 6th edition. It has proven to be the most awesome piece of equipment at my disposal. The last game I played it 'sploded an Eldar transport, melted the contents with a PoTMS'd TL plasma cannon and the next round turned the Avatar in smoosh. All after arriving in the 4th turn.

~Edit~ Sorry, that's incorrect. I have had the Raven shot down twice. Once in a tournament and once in a multiplayer events game. Both times by a Stormtalon. Both times I forgot my Evasive Maneuvers roll (jink save)

[Leonaides]

Or you play him in a firebase army, as part of an active defence unit. Your shooting (or the mission objectives) forces the enemy to come to you, so he can be on foot with any other unit, you just need to either put him where the enemy must come or where you really dont want the enemy to go near. He is a potential threat to anything the enemy sends his way and that may be what you need to force mistakes from them.

 

But then, I'm one of those weird BA players who doesnt see JP-troops and feel the need to dismiss anything that doesnt involve charging into CC...

[Bradley Powers]

I've used him before (very successfully, I might add) with 8 DC, and a chaplain in a Pod.  Now, you might say that they're just gonna get shot up, but that's less of an issue when the entire army is in pods, and has already engaged or destroyed the things that DC have to fear.  I've found him to be very effective.

[SamaNagol]

I haven't had my Raven shot down once in 6th edition. It has proven to be the most awesome piece of equipment at my disposal. The last game I played it 'sploded an Eldar transport, melted the contents with a PoTMS'd TL plasma cannon and the next round turned the Avatar in smoosh. All after arriving in the 4th turn.

~Edit~ Sorry, that's incorrect. I have had the Raven shot down twice. Once in a tournament and once in a multiplayer events game. Both times by a Stormtalon. Both times I forgot my Evasive Maneuvers roll (jink save)

Then you are very fortunate. One Stormraven shouldnt really make it through the turn against an army with viable anti air or air to air.

[Ushtarador]

 

Then you are very fortunate. One Stormraven shouldnt really make it
through the turn against an army with viable anti air or air to air.

 

Actually, the chances are very good with that AV12, especially because the raven can usually remove the biggest ground threat when he arrives. Even without jinking, you have a 67% chance of surviving a Vendetta, which arguably is the best anti-SR unit in the game. Unless your opponent has tons of anti-vehicle weapons and can actually afford to focus all of them on your raven, you have a very good chance of surviving until you unload your contents.

[SamaNagol]

They will focus quite a fair bit of them if you have 300-500pts inside of it.

 

That's all.

[Ushtarador]

I would not say it is a very safe and reliable option, that's true :P

But I dare claim that it will survive turn 2 at least 50% of the time, even with that many things inside. Of course it also depends on what you play against, but most armies still don't have really good options for flyer defense.