Ghostwolfalpha Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I recently played a few games vs csm and I have to say that their codex worries me. Each game a helldrake came in from reserve and torched whatever it wanted and went on it's merry way. I do not have an aegis defense line yet, so my answer to flyers is quite limited. In one game, I got super lucky and immobilized it with living lightning the turn it came on the board, but it still managed to fly around and kill my objective holders. Since the errata changed a baleflamer from being hull mounted, there is little I can do to mitigate the amount of damage it does. Does anyone else have input on taking down the dragon? How does gw think it is balanced for a unit to be immobilized, but can still move 18" turn 90 degrees, vector strike, shoot a torrent in any direction, and jink, but its immobilized... As a general rule, sw hate flyers, but for me, this one takes the cake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 GW is trying to sell Flyer models and terrain. We'll just have to deal with it until the sales surge dies down and they move on to the next sales opportunity. Just for the record: - a Locked Velocity Flyer can not Evade (BRB, 81), so not Jink Save. And even if it could, it would then not be able to fire its Baleflamer (can't fire Template weapons when firing Snap Shots due to Evade). - also, if the Helldrake moved Cruising Speed (more than 18") in the turn before it became Velocity Locked it must move 36" per turn (BRB FAQ) thereafter. If it was Zooming at Combat Speed (18") when it suffered its Locked Velocity and you can manage to force it to move <18" (perhaps by maneuvering a model into it's flight path at the 18" mark forcing it to stop short because of the 1" rule) then it is Wrecked because it Crashes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3297051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Helldrake has 5+ invul as natural so its pointless to jink with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3297070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Helldrake has 5+ invul as natural so its pointless to jink with it. True enough. Maybe that's what the OP was referring to - it's Daemonic Invulnerable, not a Jink Cover Save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3297091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 GW is trying to sell Flyer models and terrain. We'll just have to deal with it until the sales surge dies down and they move on to the next sales opportunity. Just for the record: - a Locked Velocity Flyer can not Evade (BRB, 81), so not Jink Save. And even if it could, it would then not be able to fire its Baleflamer (can't fire Template weapons when firing Snap Shots due to Evade). Interesting.... Did not know that. Being forced to move the full 36" does limit a flier's effectiveness somewhat (Although somewhat less so when someone decides the thing can shoot the baleflamer in a 360" arc... >.>). STill, something to think about. My advice, honestly, though, is that you really can't get around purchasing an aegis defense line or starting an allied detachment at this point. Ignoring fliers just doesn't work anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3297160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Do we get storm Ravens or Storm talons? Or would it be better to get some IG Valkyres with Lascannons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3297609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichfaust Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Do we get storm Ravens or Storm talons? Or would it be better to get some IG Valkyres with Lascannons? I was really hoping we would get at least one of them with this upcoming Flyer compendium... But sadly most of the rumours are saying only Vanilla SM and Black Templars will be gaining the use of the Storm Raven/Talon, leaving the Sons of Russ as the only marine army with no flyer. Really disappointing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3297625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Do we get storm Ravens or Storm talons? Or would it be better to get some IG Valkyres with Lascannons? I was really hoping we would get at least one of them with this upcoming Flyer compendium... But sadly most of the rumours are saying only Vanilla SM and Black Templars will be gaining the use of the Storm Raven/Talon, leaving the Sons of Russ as the only marine army with no flyer. Really disappointing. Well, we are Over-Powered, after all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3297718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Assault-cannon razorbacks or rifle dreads are really the best chances I think we have with flyers right now outside of bringing in an allied detachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3297860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I don't know ... a base Lone Wolf in Power Armor manning an Aegis Quad-gun is only 120pts, and has Precision Strikes, Eternal Warrior w/2 Wounds, Feel No Pain, and Fearless. And for some really good times can have a Terminator Armor, a Storm Shield, and Mark of the Wulfen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3297904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Do we get storm Ravens or Storm talons? Or would it be better to get some IG Valkyres with Lascannons? I was really hoping we would get at least one of them with this upcoming Flyer compendium... But sadly most of the rumours are saying only Vanilla SM and Black Templars will be gaining the use of the Storm Raven/Talon, leaving the Sons of Russ as the only marine army with no flyer. Really disappointing. What upcoming flier compendium, if I may ask? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3297924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 You guys think that we might get our own flyer one day? I love the lone wolf & aeges Quad gun plan though!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3298036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichfaust Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 You guys think that we might get our own flyer one day? I love the lone wolf & aeges Quad gun plan though!!! Do we get storm Ravens or Storm talons? Or would it be better to get some IG Valkyres with Lascannons? I was really hoping we would get at least one of them with this upcoming Flyer compendium... But sadly most of the rumours are saying only Vanilla SM and Black Templars will be gaining the use of the Storm Raven/Talon, leaving the Sons of Russ as the only marine army with no flyer. Really disappointing. What upcoming flier compendium, if I may ask? Here's a BOLS summary. You guys think that we might get our own flyer one day? I love the lone wolf & aeges Quad gun plan though!!! I'm sure we'll receive some kind of flying nordic longship, complete with striped sails and shields along the sides Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3298216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaraion Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I don't know ... a base Lone Wolf in Power Armor manning an Aegis Quad-gun is only 120pts, and has Precision Strikes, Eternal Warrior w/2 Wounds, Feel No Pain, and Fearless. And for some really good times can have a Terminator Armor, a Storm Shield, and Mark of the Wulfen. What about just putting your long fangs with the Aegis Defense line and when you need to shoot the flyer you can not split fire that turn? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3298234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
montegue Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Because you still need 6s, and the turn the Drake comes on, it's burning your face off. It can get to you in a single move, and use it's template, even if you're near the back of the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3298559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwolfalpha Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 I need to try the lone wolf defense line idea. I hate that dragon so very much, and it looks so very cool. That just makes me hate it more. Sons of Russ, we must burn the sky before the sky burns us. I have tryed twin linked assault cannons, and three wasn't enough to take down one vendetta, let alone a dragon. Two packs of longfangs never seems to finish the job before becoming bbq. Plasma anything is just asking to blow yourself up and not the dragon. How have people faired with a Storm Raven vs a Helldrake? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270694-helldrakes-why-i-hate-them/#findComment-3298961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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