General Strategic Think Tank

[elmo]

You could always magnetise it: Jimbo1701 has done a tutorial here

I have one sat in my painting queue which I am planning to fully magnetise to have weapons interchangable.

i might have to bump this up the painting queue ahead of the planned Ares

[elphilo]

You could always magnetise it: Jimbo1701 has done a tutorial here

I have one sat in my painting queue which I am planning to fully magnetise to have weapons interchangable.

i might have to bump this up the painting queue ahead of the planned Ares

Non-Mobile Link :P

[cypherthefallenangel]

Im failing to see how beliel is the best hq. Lets look at their stats. I'm only putting down hard numbers that are pertinent to the discussion. I'm trying to give enough information but not too much to cause problems with the forum.

 

Azzi-

4W, 2+/4++, with everyone in his unit getting 4++, 6+fnp, right of battle, bikes, termis, and tacts as troops, pick any warlord trait(WT),

5(6)A, I5,@ S6 Ap3, master crafted .& bolt pistol, mc combi plasma(blind)

 

Beliel-

3W, 2+/4++, the hunt(WT), 5+ precision shot/strike, No scatter deepstrike, TL shots on DS, tacs and terms as troops, telehomer.

3(4)A, I5,@ 2+poison(S4) Ap3, Master crafted,& mc stormbolter.

or 4(5)A, I5@S4 Ap3 reroll wounds, & no ranged weapons

or 3(4)A, I1@S8 Ap2 gains 3++ save, & no ranged weapons

 

Sammiel-

3W, T5, 3+/4++, rapid maneuver(WT), skilled rider, Hit &Run, jet bike (36”movement), IW, scout, telehomer,

4(5)A, I5,@ S4 Ap2,& bolt pistol, plasma cannon,TL stormbolter

Lets compare whom is the best at a given task.

-Vs. meq.... 1. Azzi 2. belial 3. sam

-vs. Teq... 1. sam 2. TH belial 3. Azzi

-Vs. MCs... 1.belial 2. Azzi 3. Sam

-Vs. armor... 1. azzi/TH belial 2. sam(pc) 3. Belial

-Shooting... 1. sam 2. Azzi 3. Belial

-Movement... 1. sam 12-36” 2. Azzi/belial

-Warlord trait... 1. azzi 2. Sam 3. Belial

As you can see it depends on who you're going up against. each hq has their strengths and weaknesses. I believe over all the masters are very close in their cc abilities before you factor in warlord traits. With warlord traits though azzi wins as you can tack on 5+fnp, furious charge, +/-1 reserves, ect.

[Brother Immolator]

I dont know, I love my bels, I now need only to paint him ^^

But azzy is good too, IMHO all three are too good but azzy has those rights and pick your cherry for trait so...

[march10k]

It does NOT depend on who you're up against, it depends on the rest of your list. 

 

If you're running ravenwing, Bels is out, and Azzy's an albatross.  You have to sink a ton of points into a unit and a transport for him, points that would be better spent on more bikes and speeders.

 

If you're running Deathwing, Bels and Azzy are pretty close, but Bels has a telehomer (put him in a crusader to guide in that DWA) and unlocks that DWCS, and fleshbane is going to carve through stuff that S6 won't, like MCs.

 

If you have a lot of green squads, Azzy's a slam dunk, he gives them LD10 while giving a devastator squad a 4++, and if you happen to have a bike or termie unit in the list, of course he makes them scoring.  And, by the way, if you're using Azzy as a commander instead of a melee monster, none of his warlord traits are particularly good.  And if you're taking him for his sword and helm, you're using him wrong, it'd be more efficient to take a chappy with the mace instead.

 

Those factors hold true no matter who you're playing against.

[Brother Landrain]

Dark Angel - Anti-Aircraft Firebase... {~400 pts}

 

-Aegis Gunline with Quad Gun

-Techmarine with PFG

-Mortis Dread dual-TLAC

-Mortis Dread dual-TLAC

 

3 effective Twin Linked Quad Guns with 4++/ 4+ cover saves

One with Int/Sky

Ability to repair Dreads as needed.

 

Thoughts?

[cypherthefallenangel]

It does NOT depend on who you're up against, it depends on the rest of your list.

 

If you're running ravenwing, Bels is out, and Azzy's an albatross. You have to sink a ton of points into a unit and a transport for him, points that would be better spent on more bikes and speeders.

 

If you're running Deathwing, Bels and Azzy are pretty close, but Bels has a telehomer (put him in a crusader to guide in that DWA) and unlocks that DWCS, and fleshbane is going to carve through stuff that S6 won't, like MCs.

 

If you have a lot of green squads, Azzy's a slam dunk, he gives them LD10 while giving a devastator squad a 4++, and if you happen to have a bike or termie unit in the list, of course he makes them scoring. And, by the way, if you're using Azzy as a commander instead of a melee monster, none of his warlord traits are particularly good. And if you're taking him for his sword and helm, you're using him wrong, it'd be more efficient to take a chappy with the mace instead.

 

Those factors hold true no matter who you're playing against.

Your right. each have their own purpose dependent upon whats in your list. if im running DW of course im taking the B-man. Im not saying people should take one over another. I was just showing their sheer combat abilities and how they stack up to a given opposing unit type that they may come up against. as my op infers its almost a three way tie. In my assessment of their combat skills alone. Over all I think all three are great in combat but azzi has the edge, slightly.

[march10k]

If the three of them stepped into a cage match together...I'd back Sammy for his AP2 weapon.  But he'd be the last of the three that I'd field (I don't have enough bikes for a proper RW army, and, fluff-wise, they have no business fighting all by their lonesome in greater than squadron strength.  They scout, and they support.  They don't man the wall!), so the fact that he'd have the best chance to win a three-way cage match (cause the bike lets him dance around until the winner between the other two comes at him wounded) isn't really relevant.

 

The real question is "which one, if any, is the best one to be your warlord?"  For my fifth company army, it's Azzy.  For my DW army, of course it's Belial.  I don't get into "my named character's better than yours," it really depends on the list...now, if you want to debate the wisdom of having Azzy lead a deathwing army that happens to include a single RAS...that's worth talking about.  But you can't say that any of the three is better in any absolute sense.  You have to evaluate them (and the other options!) in the context of a specific list.

 

The sad thing, to me, is that Zeke (a favorite) is the real loser here.  Fantastic character, but he comes in second to one of the three named above no matter what your list looks like.  So he'll only see service in APOC, I guess...

[Brother Immolator]

Or bels will swap for TH/SS and instakill them both :D

Then give himself a week of penance for not doing it in a single round due to their invs.

[Cactus]

Or bels will swap for TH/SS and instakill them both

Then give himself a week of penance for not doing it in a single round due to their invs.

And further penance for overlooking Sammael's toughness of 5, then further further penance for ignoring his admantine mantle. The chaplains will be busy that day.

[Brother Immolator]

Or bels will swap for TH/SS and instakill them both

Then give himself a week of penance for not doing it in a single round due to their invs.

And further penance for overlooking Sammael's toughness of 5, then further further penance for ignoring his admantine mantle. The chaplains will be busy that day.

The TH is str 10 Isnt it?

EDIT: No itsnt...Thats the GK deamon hammer....

I am going to the known cell, no need to tell the number it aint funny any more...ASMODAIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!

[Interrogator Stobz]

You need to concider Sammie's Jetbike too;) Belial 'Can't touch this' despite shouting "Hammertime" :P

[Brother Immolator]

You need to concider Sammie's Jetbike too;) Belial 'Can't touch this' despite shouting "Hammertime"

March10k said not to factor movement into this :P

[Upstartes]

Steel cage match! No armor. No weapons. 3 HQs go in, one comes out!

 

I'm sorry... what were we talking about?

[Brother Immolator]

Steel cage match! No armor. No weapons. 3 HQs go in, one comes out!

 

I'm sorry... what were we talking about?

 

About how many cheerleaders we want to hire and how they should be...dressed...

For the event OFC ;)

[Aromir]

In a straight up cage fight, it would be very close between Belial and Sammael. If Belial goes for thunderhammer and stormshield he will have one higher inv save and wound on 2+, then again Sammael can reroll to hit, higher Initiative and will have one more attack. I would say Belial wins (altough I suspect the math might be against me).

 

Otherwise Sammael seems to be one best suited to surviving in a modern day close combat enviroment (these days it seems you can't walk two inches without getting a thunderhammer to the face). Belial has good chance of taking something with as he goes though, so i would prefere him.

 

Azrael is simply too weak for CC forces these days, and is screwed if he is challenged. If you bring him, you should really keep him in the back until, atleast for the first half of the game.

[march10k]

Um, as the head official in this cage match (it was my idea, after all :P ), I'm ruling that all three contestants must use their heavenfall blades.  Sammy wins!