Landraiders at 1000 points

[whistlinbear]

I have been trying to come up with a 1000 pt C:SM tank army which has mobile firepower (tanks which are not significantly restricted in firepower when moved at combat speed).  

I posted an army;
LR + ExArm + 3xTH/SS + 2xLC Termis + Cassius
Pred + H/K
2x 5 man tac + m/bombs + Razor + LCTLPG
and was advised against it as I had too many points in one place with LR+Term+Cas (armies with fast melta would make short work of the LR and the termies & Cassis would be left foot slogging).

Following the advice I have been trying to replace the LR with pred/vindis (I know daka preds put out a lot of firepower, they need to remain stationary to be used at full effect so am not keen on using the sponsons) but I am finding after using the 3 heavy support options that I am still between 210-250 points short of 1000, so would need to use rhinos/razors to keep up the tank theme.

It seems to me;
- Two T/L lascannon preds (210pt) have similar fire characteristics to a 250pt LR (move 6", 48" range, reroll misses, target two seperate units) but the 11/10 side/rear armor seems far more exposed to multiple AT, even though two separate models may allow at least one to survive longer. In addition they can't act as transports if desired. They also don't have as flexible weapon options (inbuilt T/L H/Bolter, potential M/Melta to use if desired).

- Two vindicators (230pt) seem to have similar armor issues although comparisons with a LR fire characteristics don't really work as well. Although they can hide (barrage), 24" means either you have to move (exposed), or hope the enemy want to come to you (not very mobile  firepower eg. flexible).  

Instead I am currently thinking two landraiders and scrub the assault termies.

I realise using landraiders in 1000pt armies must have been discussed many times before but I can't seem to locate any applicable threads in my searches.

Can anyone give me advise/links on experiances using LR in 1000 pt games, advise on my thought processes of LR vs TLLC Preds or alternate options I haven't thought of that keeps to the tank theme please (in my mind razorbacks / rhinos fit the tank theme).

[Reichfaust]

I just used a Land Raider Redeemer in a 1000pt game this weekend, only to have it blown up as the first move of the game by a railgun. Puts you at a major disadvantage when 1/4 of your army gets taken out instantly! Next time, I think I will keep it in reserve.

 

Also, the Vindicator's demolisher cannon is not a barrage weapon, so they do require line of sight to fire, just fyi.

[whistlinbear]

Do you think using two landraiders would improve this situation by splitting AT targets, or just multiply the problem ? Also would you put the LR into reserve all games, or only where the opponent's AT is a serious risk vs AV14 ?

 

Re: the demolisher cannon not being a barrage weapon, my codex (© 2008) states that it is and the 6th Ed Ver 1.1 Errata only says to "Add 'Large Blast' to the profile of the demolisher cannon". What am I missing ?

[Reichfaust]

There is a bit of merit in that logic re: target saturation (especially where Vindicators are concerned--never leave home without a pair of 'em!), but at 1,000 points dual Land Raiders are gonna account for at least half of your army, so considering that two penetrating hits could wipe out fifty percent of your list, it's probably not a wise decision. Sure, against certain armies/lists it could probably do a lot of damage, but that's just cherry picking. (Truth be told; I can count the number of times my Redeemer has gotten into firing range on one hand, but I really love the model, success rate be damned!)

 

As for keeping them in reserves, it really depends on deployment and your opponent. If I could play that game vs Tau again, I would keep it in reserves, rush his Broadsides to tie them up in combat or bombard them with plasma and hope that they are neutralized when my LR came onto the field. I play Space Wolves, so it is possible to take a Land Raider as an Outflanking dedicated transport for Wolf Guard terminators, which is a terrifying prospect that I will have to try out at some point.

 

And as for the demolisher cannon--I am genuinely surprised. All the later codex variants of the demolisher cannon (re BA, SW, IG and DA) all lack the "barrage" rule, so it's pretty clear what the intended rules are, but I can't find anything revoking it from CSM in any errata or FAQs.

 

However, the reference section of the 6th edition rulebook lists it as being "Ordnance Large Blast", with no additional rules. I imagine this would take precedence over the profile given in CSM.

[W0lfie]

The thing with landraiders is that they are very well armoured, and very good terminator party buses, but don't have enough firepower to make back their points (unless you count the achilles, spartan and terminus ultra).  This is mitigated in larger games by how useful they are in getting your terminator stuck in, but in lower points levels (such as 1000pts) they are not great choices, even if you take terminators (which, themselves, are not great choices at that points level).

[maturin]

The ordnance barrage stat line is a misprint in earlier printings of C:SM. I think some of the earlier FAQ's addressed it in the errata section.

 

I'd go for a single LR + termies over 2 LR's. As Wolfe pointed out, 2 LR's won't have as much damage output potential. Just realize that against some opponents you'll be unbeatable. Against others you're toast. That's eggs-in-one-basket syndrome for you!

[jeffersonian000]

The Dubble-Raider 1000pt list is an old standard for 3rd, 4th, and early 5th edtion Grey Knights, with quite a lot of tacticas written on how to use them properly.  I've even used the tactic in with Codex Space Marines and Space Wolves.   For the Marines, a Redeemer with MM is great carrying a Tactical combat squad with a special weapon (I prefer a meltagun), while the other half of the team squats on an objective guarding their heavy weapon (missile launcher by preference).  Dubble that, add in a cheap HQ such as a Librarian (force multiplier), and you have just under 1000pts split into two seperate pincers that can support each other with fire and movement.  Swap out a Redeemer for a Crusader for some added low-end dakka, or a standard Godhammer for some twin-link Lascannon sniping.

 

SJ

[Disruptor_fe404]

Blood Angels can do the double-Raider list at 1000 quite well, thanks to the Assault Squad dedicated transport discount.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Blood Angels can do the double-Raider list at 1000 quite well, thanks to the Assault Squad dedicated transport discount.

 

I don't think that applies to LRs, though, just Rhinos, Razorbacks, and drop pods.  I haven't looked in a while, though, so I may be wrong.