Little review on Ravenwing in small games.

[Darkangeldentist]

A bunch of people locally have been preparing 600pt lists for a doubles event but they've also been trying to get games individually as well. So I quickly wrote up a 600pt Ravenwing list for a couple of quick fun small games (played on 4x4 tables). At such a small size and being forced to take a 200pt character really didn't leave much wiggle room on the surface of things. This is what I came up with;

 

Sammael

Ravenwing command squad with apothecary

Ravenwing attack squadron with 2 melta guns

Attack bike with multimelta

Ravenwing attack squadron with 2 flamers

 

First game was against a chaos force featuring two small units of chaos space marines with bolters (one in a rhino) a havocs squad with 4 auto cannons and 2 hellbrutes with autocannons led by a sorceror with biomancy power (smite). We played big guns never tire.

 

He won the roll for first turn but I still scouted everything as far forward as I could with Sammael at the head of the command squad to take initial hits. His first round of shooting was a brutal as I feared wiping out my melta squad and killing two of the flamer unit. However this meant that Sammael and his command squad were in range to assault the Havocs next turn this started a brutal exchange as Sammael and the command squad took on the chaos army whilst the attack sniped at the hellbrutes and the flamer hid. In the end Sammael and the command squad were caught by a hellbrute which ended up costing me the command squad although Sammael survived and got to hit and run away allowing the attack bike to kill that offending vehicle. By the end of the game I had lost Sammael when he somewhat riskily attempted to assault the rhino squad after the attack bike had removed their transport but my surviving flamer and attack bike meant I could claim two objectives to his single one and the game ended before he was able to kill either. So I won two objectives to his one.

 

Second game was against grey knights, he fielded two units with pys-cannons (and psy-bolt ammunition) plus a unit of terminators also with psy-cannon led by inquisitor with 3 servo-skulls. We played the same mission as the previous game but this time I won the roll to go first. The skulls prevented me advancing with my scout moves. My opponent made a mistake deploying one of his grey knight squads and I wiped them out with a plasma cannon blast and the attack bike's multimelta. In response and mirror to the last game my opponent then wiped out my meltagun unit using just a single squads shooting and wounded Sammael. Sammael and the command squad took a risk and attempted to shoot the terminators along with the rest of the army. His terminators showed total immunity to all attempts to bring them down for the next two turns and the piled into the command squad in his next turn killing the grenade launcher but i was lucky and only Sammael took a single wound from the combat. The shooting wiped out the flamer squad as well. I successfully managed to hit and run which allowed Sammael and the command squad to take down the other grey knight unit whilst the attack bike managed to kill a terminator with the multimelta. The terminators then shot the attack bike down for its temerity meaning it was left to the Sammael and the command squad to deal with the terminators. They did, the plasma talons and cannon dealng a good amount of damage but it was actually thanks to a failed assault from the terminators that gave me the extra turn's worth of shooting to wipe them out.

 

 

These small games give a bit of a skewed perspective but they really made me feel a lot better about Ravenwing in general and I feel gave me a good idea about how they will play. So below are my observations based on these games and along with observations from a couple of more standard sized games I have grabbed with the new codex.

 

Sammael: Whilst his stat-line may be the same as before his wealth of special rules now make him a lot more powerful on the table. Hit and run is amazing on him and the jet bike means that the army (if you go pure Ravenwing) does have something that can assault the higher levels of buildings. The AP 2 of the Raven sword is just the icing on the cake really but honestly, the bike is back to being my favourite way of fielding him.

 

Ravenwing attack squadrons: The reduced cost makes such a huge difference, it really does. A basic unit with two meltaguns is now a round 100pts making a reliable and easy to slot in option hunt tanks without being a terrible loss if taken out before it does it's job. Hit and run certainly won't come up that much for a minimum unit but it's not so unlikely for a full unit and there are few combat Ravenwing will want to hang around in so the rule is a very welcome addition. Really though they do much the same job as before whilst being a little more resilient due to jink and hit a little harder thanks to hammer of wrath. They are also a slightly more dangerous for opponents to assault due to twin-linked weapons. (Not a lot more dangerous but a full unit with a pair of flamers is quite likely to cause a few saves on units attempting to assault them.)

 

Attack bikes: I was initially really disappointed that they were still only available with attack squadrons however for the paltry increase in cost and the changes from 6th edition attack bikes are still the premier bargain for Dark angels when it comes to Ravenwing options. Since there is now a cost difference between heavy bolters and multimeltas there is at least some reasons to think about a heavy bolter but to be honest I doubt anyone will give up on the chance for that excellent tank killing threat.

 

Ravenwing command squad: I am happy to say I was wrong with my initial thoughts on these guys. I do wish they were a 5 man unit and the size means that multi-wound character is almost essential, as is the apothecary simply to make sure they have the best chance to hang around long enough to achieve anything. My games with them were extremely small which did make their survival chances better as my opponents focused on removing my scoring units first but when they did try and remove them they held up fairly well. Skilled rider is useful, not least for the bonus to their jink saves. Before you factor in the cost of the apothecary they are cheaper than black knights for exactly the same unit and you do not have to buy any of the upgrades which keeps the cost down. Even with just the apothecary and a grenader launcher they are near criminally cheap for what they can do. Led by a character who can act as a wound sink to start depending on what threats are out there they can act as a pretty good scapel unit to remove tough threats. The plasma talons are evil and the grenade launcher amazingly useful. If you do take the grenade launcher and I definitely recommend that you do then they also make a fairly reliable shock assault unit. A rad grenade is good against higher toughness foes or for helping make their shooting more effective (plasma likes toughness 5 monsters a lot more than toughness 6) whilst the stasis round gives the edge when needing the maximum number of hits possible.

 

 

I feel that Ravenwing are definitely going to be a force to be reckoned with in the future. I am looking forward to trialling the support squadrons as the reduced points cost for assault cannons and in general alongside the squadron rules and 5 strong option have me strongly wanting to field fotillas of them. The darkshroud seems like it will be extremely useful in larger games where an indirectly impacting choice won't adversely drag the rest of the list through loss of hitting power. Personally I feel that a command squad and dark shroud with the right banner could result in a very powerful support combination that spends the early turns turbo-boosting around to keep themselves protected by a 2+ cover save. (Which should deter enemy fire for the sake of taking down easier targets.) Attack squadrons now appear to me to have a much greater range of options, full units are not that expensive (understatement compared to previous cost) and bring much needed bodies to the table. Min units can almost be seen as disposable sacrificial options to take down specific threats with greater reliability than attack bikes and the range of special weapons give them good options against a wide range of threats. I am really looking forward to fielding black knights as my experience with the command squad made me appreciate just how much they will bring to the army. Cost is not that high considering the power they have and the access to those grenade launchers means they can tackle a huge range of threats. I also feel they may be our best default option against fliers. Their speed and excellent cover save mean they can easily be where you need them to shoot whilst the twin-linked plasma weapons provide some decent chances to hit and damage the generally modest armour of fliers. Lastly the plasma talons low AP means you are more likely to destory them on a penetrating hit.

 

I have yet to trial the vengeance or darkshroud on the table yet and won't be getting the fliers for some time (if at all) but just sticking to regular Ravenwing there is a lot to be happy about. The force is still fragile as ever despite being able to field more bikers and having a wider range of options. They are harder to pin down than before and also hit harder too. All in all it is good to be a biker fan.

 

[Brom MKIV]

Thanks for the write up DAD, I'm surprised as ever by your results with elite min sized bike lists. I support your assessment and I'm a huge fan of Sammael and the cmd squad as well. Since you mentioned the use of the cmd squad as shock troops I would be interested in your thoughts on a build I've come up with. It consists of Sammael, cmd + Dev std apoth and champ and rwgl plus company master with jump pack artificer Auspex and mace of redemption. Primary purpose is durability of the cmd, secondary is mace delivery system.

[John_f]

Thank you for the excellent summary. I have one question, how can Sammaels jetbike reach further then the regular bikes. They all charge 12 ", dont they?

[Darkangeldentist]

Thanks for the replies.

 

The more HQ's you add to the command squad the more resilient they become provided you keep the HQs at the front. A company master with mace of redemption sounds very potent (an interrogator chaplain is another worthwhile option) and will hit like a truck. The banner of devastation is utterly ridiculous (in my opinion) in a Ravenwing army and I have a mind to field a similar unit as a support option to shadow the main squads so they chuck out the kind of firepower that would allow us to shoot opponents off the table. With a darkshroud and careful use of turbo-boosting you can afford not to use their impressive potential directly and just let regular bike squad shoot opponents down with twin-linked 4 shot bolters! So I very much agree with your plan.

 

John_f, my reference to Sammael was due to the fact his jetbike can go up onto the higher levels of buildings, regular bikes are forced to stay on ground level but jetbikes can climb onto the higher levels because they fly. This means Sammael can launch assaults into units hiding in the upper levels of ruins which bikes cannot normally do. Since the bikes can follow on the ground and still be in coherency Sammael charge in and let pile-in moves drag opponents to engage the rest of the unit waiting on the ground level.

[John_f]

Darkangeldentist: ahh, I see your point now. I never realised that ordinary bikes could not climb levels in buildings.

[Brom MKIV]

And I thought I was sneaky.. That is brilliant man.

[GlauG]

Interesting note on the Jetbike charging! I will definitely keep that in mind in future... 

 

My experience with a Ravenwing contingent gels with yours, but I warn you now; Tau will do horrible things to you, between your relatively small model count, and their ability to take away our cover saves and increase BS with Markerlights!  Of course, it might not be that anyone plays them in your area. :)

[Gillyfish]

That's a really nice set of reflections Dentist, makes me want to finish off the Ravenwing force I have planned and give it a go. 

 

Mind you, I have to say that in smaller games (500 - 600 points) I've found that mobility is one of the key strengths of an army, so, as you yourself point out, maybe this won't scale upward so well, particularly when a table gets more crowded with units, making it harder to hide!

[Darkangeldentist]

Nice to hear from you Gillyfish.

 

 

Mobility is a great asset but to be honest the low numbers make the force counter the mobility asset somewhat as such small forces tend to clump up anyway unless the mission forces them to split right from the start. We were also playing on 4x4 tables which made it hard to stay out of range of any enemy units. Probably my greatest strength at this size was being able to field so many small units. I was quite surprised that I could fit the command squad and attack bike in. Had I been using the previous codex it would have been a lot harder, the command squad would have been reduced to another attack bike or a speeder.

 

Also I would like to make it clear that the games were very close. The first game ended with my opponent having 4 chaos space marine on the table facing just a single bike with a flamer and an attack bike whilst the second was Sammael with single wound and two command bikers for the complete destruction of the grey knights. I only really manged to beat the grey knights because he misplaced one of his units so the plasma cannon killed 4 with a direct hit. It's an army that can go from a winning position to a losing one in a single turn. Although now it can also go from a losing position to a winning one just as quickly thanks mostly to black knights and the command squad. Hit and run is nothing to be dismissed either! In both games that rule saved me and allowed Sammael and his unit to go wipe out a soft target and let the attack bike pick on the tougher stuff.

[Polythemus]

Hey nice writeup. If i may, i'd like to make an addendum to your point regarding the jetbike assault vs biker assaults. Its not so much that bikes cant assault opponents high up in ruins, afterall they ignore terrain modifiers, but every inch of their assault distance must be accounted for by touching a surface meaning you must measure the verticle and horizontal dimension you are traveling in. The jetbike ignores the verticle component of movement since it ignores terrain. So if someone places those deavstators on the second floor, drive those bikes up up a wall and beat those suckas!

 

And with regard to tau, marker lights are a problem, but thats why we have the ability to drop belial on them, and bash those pathfinders.

[Darkangeldentist]

Polythemus, could you reference the rule that lets bikes enter the upper levels of ruins? I have been using the mini rulebook from the dark vengeance set and in the rules section for ruins the paragraph describing 'moving within ruins' (page 98 of that tome) specifically only allows infantry, jetbikes, skimmers and all types of jump pack and jet pack units can move around the upper levels of ruins. Monstrous creatures and walkers get a conditional option at the end.

 

So by my reading of that section regular bikes, beasts and cavalry cannot enter the upper levels of ruins. Bikes benefits mean they are not slowed by terrain (and instead take a dangerous terrain test) but do not ignore terrain. If I have missed something I would love to be corrected.

 

Tau markerlights will be a problem but the issue for Tau versus Ravenwing is a simple one. The Tau army will generally only have a single turn to take down the bikers before they swarm the Tau lines. First turn for the Ravenwing should see punishing damage and from one flank leaving the rest of the Tau in need of getting a lot out of their remaining forces. This is theory at the moment since I have not played against Tau in this edition. I used to play them quite a lot and my opponents were not keen on Ravenwing at all for their ability to close so quickly.

[GlauG]

I mention Tau because a lot of their nastier elements can also be very mobile... In particular, the guy I played on Thursday used a pair of FW Tau Jetbikes which had 4 Markerlights each a turn? But more than that, the Jet-pack move means that their plasma-toting Crisis Suits can blast away at your cover-save-less Bikers to horrible effect, in the space of even a single turn's shooting, and then move out of reach or into cover in the Assault phase of their own turn.

Not saying they can't be beaten, but a lot of Ravenwing tactics generally rely on the Jink/cover save to survive the first punishing charge up the board. Of course, it doesn't help that I failed my Darkshroud's save against a Railgun the first time it was shot, either For a pure RW force, reserves are naturally an option, but the less you have on the board at the start, the more punishing that initial turn or two of shooting becomes. I suspect with a pure RW force, if you put maybe 1/3 in reserves, or just one big killy unit like Black Knights, and an Attack Bike or two, it'd work out fine.

EDIT:

From another thread, if "Skilled Rider" gives you another +1 to your Jink, Black Knights just got very nasty,