Brother Immolator Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 It's not handicapping them (they've still got bolters as well). All the storm bolters do is give you options as to which weapons you fire each turn. I think you've missed my point a little. What I was trying to say (probably not very well ) is that sometimes, you'll want to keep your Tac squads out of the Salvo 'bubble', allowing them to move and fire as normal. Therefore, ideally you want the Command Squad to be mobile enough that you can move the 'bubble' as you need it. There are various ways you can do this. Transports are one, but then you've got a minimum of 165 pts probably doing nothing until you move the bubble forward again. The best way would probably be a Ravenwing Command Squad, but the three bike limit is a severe disadvantage. The Command Squad the OP posted was an infantry version, so I tried to create a similar squad that could move and fire in a variety of ways. You can move them and they fire two times, if they are stationary they fire 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced Hulk Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 It's not handicapping them (they've still got bolters as well). All the storm bolters do is give you options as to which weapons you fire each turn. I think you've missed my point a little. What I was trying to say (probably not very well ) is that sometimes, you'll want to keep your Tac squads out of the Salvo 'bubble', allowing them to move and fire as normal. Therefore, ideally you want the Command Squad to be mobile enough that you can move the 'bubble' as you need it. There are various ways you can do this. Transports are one, but then you've got a minimum of 165 pts probably doing nothing until you move the bubble forward again. The best way would probably be a Ravenwing Command Squad, but the three bike limit is a severe disadvantage. The Command Squad the OP posted was an infantry version, so I tried to create a similar squad that could move and fire in a variety of ways. You can move them and they fire two times, if they are stationary they fire 4. If they move they can fire twice, but only up to 12". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Arkley Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I know my post is pointless but as a painter only I will be treating my Vets as individuals :)... NO wargear is off limits :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced Hulk Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I know my post is pointless but as a painter only I will be treating my Vets as individuals ... NO wargear is off limits Don't worry, I seem to have a never ending compulsion to build Company Veteran models. I actually made a list of them all the other day. So far, this is what I've got: Apothecary with chainsword & narthecium Champion with Blade of Caliban, bolt pistol & combat shield. 4 veterans with plasma guns 2 veterans with bolter-plasma combi-weapons Veteran with storm bolter & bolt pistol Veteran with storm bolter & chainsword Veteran with storm bolter & power fist 4 veterans with bolt pistol & plasma pistol Veteran with two power swords (counts as twin lightning claws) Veteran with plasma pistol & power mace Veteran with plasma pistol & power axe Veteran with power sword & chainsword. Veteran with power lance & bolt pistol Veteran with two handed power sword & wrist mounted bolt pistol Veteran with twin lightning claws. 3 veterans with boltguns. Veteran with boltgun & power fist 2 veterans with boltguns & storm shields. And there are still loads of combinations I want to build. If only the compulsion to paint them was as strong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I know my post is pointless but as a painter only I will be treating my Vets as individuals ... NO wargear is off limits Well you know, how long are they going to be legal (in the tabletop) anyway? Till the next codex most likely then we are gonna need more :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickSix Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 Well, I am not convinced about the champion so am leaving him out. I appreciate all the feedback and the ongoing discussion. I think I will keep a couple storm shields and run them with bolters, plus the banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 If they move they can fire twice, but only up to 12". Not a problem you will keep em stationary so its 4 shots each, after all they have bolters and are five men only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I see that there are 2 topics in the same topic The company veteran squad : I've always played them in a drop pod, 8 men-strong with 4combi weapons and one special weapons (bolter/plasma, plasma or bolter/melta, melta). The 3 remaining marines are a sgt with a PW and 2 marines with CCW for counter attack. I love droppoding them in the enemy lines and destroying a costly unit that my opponent thought well protected. The following turn I generally use them to contest an objective or attacking the enemy unit that holds it. The command squad : depends of the HQ loadout Chapter/company master : kitted for CC Company champion all with CCW and if necessary, PW. Apoc. Don't know if a banner is that necessary but if so, I'd take a chapter banner. Librarian : typically a level one with divination. This is the dakka unit used to support my bolters ones with the standard of devastation. In that case I prefer giving all my vets a plasma GUN, it's the only squad able to be equiped like that, I don't hesitate that much. Okay I lose 5 bolters hence 20 shots but I gain extra firepower against weel protected units every turn. And since I know that the tactical around will profit from the standard I don't consider it like a big loss. Chaplain... Well I equiped him with a JP and join the assault squad... But I still use my right to get a command squad and get the same for libby (and sometimes join a tech to the pack) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Not at all we are discussing the how to equip veterans, technically a command squads marines are veterans and makes more sense to have those than a vet squad (IMHO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced Hulk Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 If they move they can fire twice, but only up to 12". Not a problem you will keep em stationary so its 4 shots each, after all they have bolters and are five men only. I just like the idea of being able to fire at 24" whether you're stationary or moving. For +15 pts it's nice to have a bit more flexibility. I suspect that subconsciously, I really want to model up some Veterans armed with boltguns & wrist mounted storm bolters as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Not at all we are discussing the how to equip veterans, technically a command squads marines are veterans and makes more sense to have those than a vet squad (IMHO) Well, you can't have apoc, banner or 5 special weapons in the vet squad, on the other hand you can't have more than 5 marines in a command squad... Really depends how you want to play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Not at all we are discussing the how to equip veterans, technically a command squads marines are veterans and makes more sense to have those than a vet squad (IMHO) Well, you can't have apoc, banner or 5 special weapons in the vet squad, on the other hand you can't have more than 5 marines in a command squad... Really depends how you want to play them. Those are technicalities ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Not at all we are discussing the how to equip veterans, technically a command squads marines are veterans and makes more sense to have those than a vet squad (IMHO) Well, you can't have apoc, banner or 5 special weapons in the vet squad, on the other hand you can't have more than 5 marines in a command squad... Really depends how you want to play them. Those are technicalities Oh sorry I thought technicalities were all you were discussing about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunta Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hi guys! I am seeking a little bit of advice re Veterans. Firstly I need to say I am a modeller first and foremost but I do play on occasion. The role I have in mind for my vets is to support my 2 tactical squads, that will be foot slogging up the middle, with some specialist weapon fire and some counter attack melee ability. I have 6 models that I would like to use, one of which is modeled with a combi plas, so that stays, the rest is an open slate. What I came up with was somthing that I thought could move up the board whilst giving as much fire support to the tacs as possible, whilst being able to weigh into any asults the tacs get stuck in. So I have: Guy number 1: Combi Plas and Power Sword Guy number 2: Plasma Gun and Storm Shield (is that allowed?) Guy number 3: Storm Bolter and Storm Shield Guy number 4: Storm Bolter and Power Fist Guy number 5: Combi Plas and Power Sword Guy number 6: Storm Bolter and Power Sword I included the Storm Shields to soak up some fire and the power fist to hurt some armour if required, however this unit did turn out very expensive (248 points) Any advice to perhaps make them better in their role for less points would be appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pueriexdeus Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 It's not handicapping them (they've still got bolters as well). All the storm bolters do is give you options as to which weapons you fire each turn. I think you've missed my point a little. What I was trying to say (probably not very well ) is that sometimes, you'll want to keep your Tac squads out of the Salvo 'bubble', allowing them to move and fire as normal. Therefore, ideally you want the Command Squad to be mobile enough that you can move the 'bubble' as you need it. There are various ways you can do this. Transports are one, but then you've got a minimum of 165 pts probably doing nothing until you move the bubble forward again. The best way would probably be a Ravenwing Command Squad, but the three bike limit is a severe disadvantage. The Command Squad the OP posted was an infantry version, so I tried to create a similar squad that could move and fire in a variety of ways. You can move them and they fire two times, if they are stationary they fire 4. If they move they can fire twice, but only up to 12". Thats called "Rapid Fire" right? Move shoot twice. So the only advantage of having the SoD is to remain a gun-line and get four shots at range instead of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hi guys! I am seeking a little bit of advice re Veterans. Firstly I need to say I am a modeller first and foremost but I do play on occasion. The role I have in mind for my vets is to support my 2 tactical squads, that will be foot slogging up the middle, with some specialist weapon fire and some counter attack melee ability. I have 6 models that I would like to use, one of which is modeled with a combi plas, so that stays, the rest is an open slate. What I came up with was somthing that I thought could move up the board whilst giving as much fire support to the tacs as possible, whilst being able to weigh into any asults the tacs get stuck in. So I have: Guy number 1: Combi Plas and Power Sword Guy number 2: Plasma Gun and Storm Shield (is that allowed?) Guy number 3: Storm Bolter and Storm Shield Guy number 4: Storm Bolter and Power Fist Guy number 5: Combi Plas and Power Sword Guy number 6: Storm Bolter and Power Sword I included the Storm Shields to soak up some fire and the power fist to hurt some armour if required, however this unit did turn out very expensive (248 points) Any advice to perhaps make them better in their role for less points would be appreciated! Yup the combo plasma gun/storm shield is allowed as the PG replaces the bolter and the SS is added to the wargear. Fact is each of your vets is carrying more or less 20pts of wargear making them as expensive as a termis without the systematic 2+ save and PF/SB combo. Moreover you have lots of rapid fire weapons meaning that if you use them you won't be able to charge after. Note that I also use a mixed combi/PW squad BUT the bearers of combi weapons and PW are different AND the squad is 8 men strong and mounted in a Drop Pod. the idea is to land close a heavy armoured menace, deliver plasma death and if the survivors want to charge me, I can reply and kill the rest. If the menace is entirely killed I can walk to take care of some objective holding units. In both case, once they fired, the vets with combi bolter acts like abblative wounds to protect the PW bearers. In this case I don't feel bad removing them cos they've fulfilled the mission I paid them for. IMO SS are good for character : it allows them to survive if a challenge happen and strike with an PF/PAxe after. The new wound repartition in v6 doesn't make SS very useful because you never know if your SS will be in good position to absorb a PA3 shot. Hence the situation is now : either I give a SS to all my vets or I give one to my character only. IMO your squad would gain effectivness if 1- You remove the Storm shields and give one only to the sgt with PF 2- you add 2 vets 3- you choose a general theme for your squad : bolter shooters => Storm bolters CC monsters => PW ; Plasma shooters =>combi weapons/PG 4- give them a transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 -snip- Thats called "Rapid Fire" right? Move shoot twice. So the only advantage of having the SoD is to remain a gun-line and get four shots at range instead of one. Spaced Hulk's point was that normal Rapid Fire bolter marines can still shoot once out to 24" if they move out of the range of the SoD, but the Command Squad can never do this, as they are always under the influence of the SoD. So, if you have the SoD, and need to move your gunline, your Command Squad will only be able to shoot out to 12" on the turn they move. If you equip them with the Storm Bolter AND the boltgun in place of their CS and BP, they will always be able to fire to 24" even if they move as they can simply use the SB on the turn they move. The tactical squads can always move out of the range of the SoD on the turn they move in order to maintain some fire out to 24". Granted, you don't want to move your gunline, but sometimes you have to, and Spaced Hulk's idea is simply a way of spending a few points to be able to maintain that 24" bubble of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Good point, but for the damn thing to work as its supposed to it needs a transpost to extend the bubble. So it all boils down to taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunta Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hi guys! I am seeking a little bit of advice re Veterans. Firstly I need to say I am a modeller first and foremost but I do play on occasion. The role I have in mind for my vets is to support my 2 tactical squads, that will be foot slogging up the middle, with some specialist weapon fire and some counter attack melee ability. I have 6 models that I would like to use, one of which is modeled with a combi plas, so that stays, the rest is an open slate. What I came up with was somthing that I thought could move up the board whilst giving as much fire support to the tacs as possible, whilst being able to weigh into any asults the tacs get stuck in. So I have: Guy number 1: Combi Plas and Power Sword Guy number 2: Plasma Gun and Storm Shield (is that allowed?) Guy number 3: Storm Bolter and Storm Shield Guy number 4: Storm Bolter and Power Fist Guy number 5: Combi Plas and Power Sword Guy number 6: Storm Bolter and Power Sword I included the Storm Shields to soak up some fire and the power fist to hurt some armour if required, however this unit did turn out very expensive (248 points) Any advice to perhaps make them better in their role for less points would be appreciated! Yup the combo plasma gun/storm shield is allowed as the PG replaces the bolter and the SS is added to the wargear. Fact is each of your vets is carrying more or less 20pts of wargear making them as expensive as a termis without the systematic 2+ save and PF/SB combo. Moreover you have lots of rapid fire weapons meaning that if you use them you won't be able to charge after. Note that I also use a mixed combi/PW squad BUT the bearers of combi weapons and PW are different AND the squad is 8 men strong and mounted in a Drop Pod. the idea is to land close a heavy armoured menace, deliver plasma death and if the survivors want to charge me, I can reply and kill the rest. If the menace is entirely killed I can walk to take care of some objective holding units. In both case, once they fired, the vets with combi bolter acts like abblative wounds to protect the PW bearers. In this case I don't feel bad removing them cos they've fulfilled the mission I paid them for. IMO SS are good for character : it allows them to survive if a challenge happen and strike with an PF/PAxe after. The new wound repartition in v6 doesn't make SS very useful because you never know if your SS will be in good position to absorb a PA3 shot. Hence the situation is now : either I give a SS to all my vets or I give one to my character only. IMO your squad would gain effectivness if 1- You remove the Storm shields and give one only to the sgt with PF 2- you add 2 vets 3- you choose a general theme for your squad : bolter shooters => Storm bolters CC monsters => PW ; Plasma shooters =>combi weapons/PG 4- give them a transport. Thanks for that advice, I think I will go for storm bolters + CC weapons. It will look good to my mind and be more effective! I may also give them a Razorback. This way they can support the tacs as they advance on objectives and do some damage should the Tacs get assulted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunta Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Hello again, I have read a little further into this Veteran thing. Turns out I cant equip them how I talked about anyway as you replace you bolter with power weapons ect so I couldnt do storm bolter with power sword ect ect. So I am left with storm bolters to support the advance of tactical squads, power weapons and bolt pistols then drop pod them to support my deathwing or, and this is the one I have questions about...arm them with plasma pistols 'gunslinger' style. I am very new to playing and I don't want to cheat by accident, so if I equip my veterans with a plasma pistol and bolt pistol can they fire both in one shooting phase? Also is it like older versions of the game where a pistol can be used as a CC weapon when it comes to dealing wounds, ie would my models hit with S7 AP3 in close combat if so armed. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 If I equip my veterans with a plasma pistol and bolt pistol can they fire both in one shooting phase?Yes, per page 52, Big Green Book: "Gunslinger: all models with two pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase." Also is it like older versions of the game where a pistol can be used as a CC weapon when it comes to dealing wounds, ie would my models hit with S7 AP3 in close combat if so armed.No, per page 51 of the Big Green Book: "Pistols as Close Combat Weapons: A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile above - the Strength, AP and special rules of the pistol's Shooting profile are ignored. However, you would gain an attack for having two close combat weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunta Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 If I equip my veterans with a plasma pistol and bolt pistol can they fire both in one shooting phase?Yes, per page 52, Big Green Book: "Gunslinger: all models with two pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase." >Also is it like older versions of the game where a pistol can be used as a CC weapon when it comes to dealing wounds, ie would my models hit with S7 AP3 in close combat if so armed.No, per page 51 of the Big Green Book: "Pistols as Close Combat Weapons: A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile above - the Strength, AP and special rules of the pistol's Shooting profile are ignored. However, you would gain an attack for having two close combat weapons. Thank you for that! The gunslingers sound like a good option regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Sounds good yes but I think that you should keep one PW in the squad in case of H2H. The sgt with PF/Stormshield like I've suggested before looks interesting in that job. Or With a PowerAxe to spare points but keep a solution against an AP2 opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunta Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 thinking about attaching the Master or Librarian to the squad for that little extra punch. If not I will run one powerfist for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphid Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Hi guys! I am seeking a little bit of advice re Veterans. Firstly I need to say I am a modeller first and foremost but I do play on occasion. The role I have in mind for my vets is to support my 2 tactical squads, that will be foot slogging up the middle, with some specialist weapon fire and some counter attack melee ability. I have 6 models that I would like to use, one of which is modeled with a combi plas, so that stays, the rest is an open slate. What I came up with was somthing that I thought could move up the board whilst giving as much fire support to the tacs as possible, whilst being able to weigh into any asults the tacs get stuck in. So I have: Guy number 1: Combi Plas and Power Sword Guy number 2: Plasma Gun and Storm Shield (is that allowed?) Guy number 3: Storm Bolter and Storm Shield Guy number 4: Storm Bolter and Power Fist Guy number 5: Combi Plas and Power Sword Guy number 6: Storm Bolter and Power Sword I included the Storm Shields to soak up some fire and the power fist to hurt some armour if required, however this unit did turn out very expensive (248 points) Any advice to perhaps make them better in their role for less points would be appreciated! Other than aesthetics, there's no reason to take combi weapon + power sword when a lightning claw costs the same and lets you re-roll to-wound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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