Blank05 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hey all! Blank here and I've got a question for you. 6th edition has brought us a new adversary, Flyers, and I want to hear what we're all doing about them in our new Codex. I bring two Rifleman Dreadnoughts with Techmarine support. I toyed with the idea or Devastators with Flakk, but it just didn't feel right, plus 8 shots twin linked is bound to get results. So... How are you all handling them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Those shots might be twin linked but you still need sixes to hit and you're spending over 200 points on 2 elite choices when the devastators would do it better for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Lucian Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Mortis dreads, or IG allied and bring you own fliers (Hate this solution..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polythemus Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I toyed with the idea or Devastators with Flakk, but it just didn't feel right, plus 8 shots twin linked is bound to get results. So... How are you all handling them? Umm... does not compute. How does bringing strength 8 that hits on 3's vs flyers not feel right? For the codex purist they are the best option availible. Dreads are kind of a waste of time unless your using the forgeworld rules, which i reccomend. The other option being thrown around is taking the nephilim and using the dogfighting rules from crusade of fire, which give you a good chance of taking down other flyers in one turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICS Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 The flakks are actually S7. It really depends what you are up against and the list you are running. I am running pure Ravenwing at the moment and have pretty much used board control. The dragon is a super pest but if you can weaken the right units and jump into assault and then hit and run out you can avoid them but this is easier said than done. Getting first turn helps you be able to have two turns of movement and shooting before flyers come in which is very useful. With ravenwing our speed is key against flyers. With the limited movement and the 45 degree firing arc if you are not in combat when they come on turn two you can wear the firepower which is easier said than done if they have multiple dragons/dakkajets/nightsythes then use movement so they can not shoot you next turn. I never bother shooting them unless I have no other targets. If you really want to destroy flyers adding allies is your best bet. Azreal in a plasma blob with a Lvl 2 psyker with 9 lascannon sabre defence platforms on a skyshield with 3 full units of bikes is what I'm building right now. Take that scumbag dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I usually equip my two/three tacs and scouts with missile launchers and cram flakk in there. I dont face flyer heavy lists, but they bring down the odd storm raven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polythemus Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 The flakks are actually S7... Take that scumbag dragon. I stand corrected. Glad ive got the mortis now, cause devs dont really seem worth it for only str 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lothlorienmoon Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Flakk in two tac squads, defense line with a flakk gun. If the gun doesn't take it down when it hits the board, next turn I light it up with the two missile launchers. It's worked so far, though I will be adding a devastator squad in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphid Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Techmarine with Power Field Generator and Auspex attached to Hyperios Air Defence Battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Well hyperios is not a codex entry ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 The problem with S7 against flyers, is that a lot of the scary flyers are AV12. That means you need 5+ to do anything. Even flakk devs and a quadgun won't really have the firepower to really affect multiple flyers. While many flyers are AV10 rear, the problem is you have to hope you're opponent makes a mistake so you can hit it. Really, the best thing DA have against flyers (besides FW) is board control through RW and mech. Do you're best to give those oval bases nowhere to go and force the flyer to crash. Honestly, I think one of the best things GW can do to help against flyers is give skyfire to more mobile units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worloch Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 The all-comers list I'm working on is currently sporting 2x 5 man Tac w/ Missile Launcher + Flakk. I'll use them as back field scoring units and taking pot shots at targets of opportunity, including flyers. Sure, St 7 isn't great against AV 12 Flyers, but you can throw a couple out there for a reasonable amount of points and have a decent chance of inflicting some damage. The Missile Launchers still have Krak and Frag for other targets, so its not like they will go to waste. I'm also including a 5 Man Dev squad w/ 4x Lascannons and attaching a cheap Librarian w/ Divination and Infravisor. TL Snapshots aren't great, but they're better than nothing - 11/36 chance to hit on average, which is just a tad shy of being equivalent to BS 2 (1/3 chance to hit on average). With 4x shots, you have pretty good chance of landing at least 1 hit, and St 9 Ap 2 has a pretty good chance of netting you something against AV 12. Again, this unit isn't solely for use against Flyers, but has a decent chance of doing something while still being useful for popping other hard targets on the board. I've also toyed around with adding another marine for an ablative wound to the squad, and adding a Power Field Generator and/or Mastery Level 2 to the the Librarian. Final unit that I have that has a decent chance to pitch in against Flyers is the Black Knights. TL'ed Plasma Talons are basically the worst of both of the above (St 7 like the Flakk missiles and 11/36 chance to hit like the Devs) but again, it is better than nothing. I'm taking 6, but one with a Grenade Launcher, so 5x shots has a decent chance to land a hit, and St 7 Ap 2 might net you a glance or a pen against a pesky AV 12 flyer. You have even better chance if you can use the BK's mobility to get in to Rapid Fire range. So that is my take on it - flexible units that taken singularly don't have a good chance of success in a single turn, but taken altogether, they present a pretty solid chance to do something. Other than that, I can only say what has already been said - take an Aegis Defense line w/ the Quad Gun, use Forgeworld Mortis Dread rules (on a side note, I really wish they had included those in our base codex, as I like the fluff but I can see the business reason they didn't), and/or take Allies who have better Anti-Air options in their lists (such as IG). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Where does it say flaks are s7? That's a huge Nerf from s8. As for dealing with flyers black knights are actually very respectable, more so if flaks are s7. 4 talons rapid firing will net the same hits as 4 flaks (2.4 vs 2.6). My wolves use 4-5 twin linked asscans and twin linked auto cannon dreads plus prescience LFs. I'm opposed to altering an army to deal with flyers when a change in strategy can do the job along with guns that double as AA in a pinch. As stated board control, aggressively attack their army while their flyers are in reserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorDaley Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 @worloch, I swear you read my list... I did add the PFG to the libby, but I also added a bastion with Icarus Lascannon! I have been toying with adding las-backs to the dev and tac squads, just to get three more TLed lascannon shots into the list. I am assuming the extra cost isn't really worth it though. Just out of curiosity, did you post a list up? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Why aren't peeps using the Nephilm? It says in the Codex that it is a fantastic bit of kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Why aren't peeps using the Nephilm? It says in the Codex that it is a fantastic bit of kit It is, however its expensive and not an anti-flyer Trolled me thinks It is effectively an A-10 thunderbolt in speeeeshhhhhhh!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Where does it say flaks are s7? That's a huge Nerf from s8.Flakk missiles were never S8 in 6th Edition for DA. Pg 57, Big Green Book: Flakk missile: 48"/S7/AP4/Heavy 1 Skyfire Pg 105, C:DA: Flakk under Missile launcher: 48"/S7/AP4/Heavy 1 Skyfire Maybe they are S8 for C:CSM only (I don't have that one). Everyone else would need to use the BGB entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehoel Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Nope, Flakk missiles are s7 in the C:CSM also. Same stat line as the BGB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Killmer Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Yesterday in a battle against necrons I was using 2 Ravenwing Speeder squads with 3 speeders each with assault cannons and heavy bolters. Not optimal but still not to shabby to score some hits on the flyer. Advantage was - they didn't have a better target at this moment anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Doing the mathhammer quickly in my head, the speeder option listed above gives roughly the same outcome (in terms of pens and glances) for Typhoon speeders. The advantage is that the Typhoons are slightly cheaper, and have longer range so a greater threat radius. The question is, however, is it better to drop 150/160 points worth of speeders, in order to take some devastators with flakk missiles? Devs with 3 flakk missiles come in at around 145 points, and will do as much damage (on average) to a flyer as an entire squadron listed above. So, against flyers, a combined Devastator/Speeder set-up with 4 speeders will do quite nicely, but obviously 6 speeders will do better against ground targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Since when did chaos marines took flakk missiles and at what unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cielaq Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Since the last Codex and Havocs. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Ah yeah you are right, somehow missed the entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 CSm have flakk missiles on in havocs squads... however in a pure RW force the best AA unit is Black kinights... attach them a tech on bike with 4++ field and the dragon cannpot harm you... then with plasma talons you hit the rear and the dragon goes to hell in one turn... you can use also a squadron of LST with a librarian with divination to get TL on the typhoons krak missiles... they high speed od RW units cah always get you in the besck of dragons and vendettas... if you face SR the best thing is the LST krak missiles... In pure DW army... with 2+/5++ or 2+/3++ saves you simply ignore most of the flyers and annihilated the squads on the ground... if you want to shoot down the flyers shoot them with split fire with CML krak missiles using a librarian to TL your weapons... S8 missiles vs 10 to 12 armour is always good... in a mixed wing army spam flakk missiles in devs, scouts, tacticals and get a defence line quadd gun/icarus LC too... protect the most sensible units (devs, quad gun) with techmarines with 4++ field and auspex and you can shoot down anything... if you want to field a flyer the best solution is always the nephilim with TLLC... if you play at very high points (2000+) field a fortress of redemption... TL Icarus LC is a really good weapon to detroy any flyer and the fortress it's too cool... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartans Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Contemptor Mortis Dreads from Forge World Imperial Armour Apocolpse Second Edition. 201 for 2 TL Autocannons and Cyclone Missile Launcher and a searchlight, it also has a 5+ Invunerable save against shooting and 6+ versus CC attacks and if it does not move in the movement phase it has the skyfire rule. Also has BS5 so hitting on 2 and armour F13 S12 R11 so is a tough nut to crack. If you need cheaper lose the Cyclone ML which is 35 pts This is by far the best anti air in the game I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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