Dark Angel Relics

[L30n1d4s]

If you could modify the current DA Relics (not changing their points cost, just their stats/rules), how would you do it?

 

Here is my take:

 

-Lion's Roar - No change, except remove "Gets Hot" rule

*Rationale - Overall, decent weapon for its cost, but since it is such a rare/special weapon, should not even have a chance (even a remote one ;) ) to kill its owner

 

-Foe Smiter - Change to S:5 AP:4 Assault 3, 24" range, Master-Crafted, Rending

*Rationale - Some slight changes, including upping the strength by +1 and giving it rending in order to make the weapon worth its points; basically, now it is a 24" range, MCed Heavy Bolter.

 

-Mace of Redemption - Add "Specialist Weapon" and "Honor of Caliban" (bearer must accept challenges if challenged by someone else; does not have offer challenges, though) to its rules.

*Rationale - Great weapon for its costs already and used by many players; perhaps almost too good for its points, therefore, adding these rules to slightly balance it out a little.

 

-Shroud of Heroes - Change the FNP (5+) that it grants to a FNP (4+); otherwise, no change (still grants Shrouded when model is by himself).

*Rationale - Very expensive artifact, so I think this makes it slightly more worth its high points cost. Can make for an expensive, but quite survivable, hero... i.e. get what you pay for.

 

Monster Slayer of Caliban - Completely rework this one: at the start of every Fight Sub-Phase, bearer of the Sword takes a Leadership test:

-If Leadership test is failed, then it is just a normal Power Sword

-If passes on a roll of 8, 9, or 10, then sword is S:+2 AP:3

-If passes on a roll of 5, 6, or 7, then sword is S:+2 AP:2

-If passes on a roll of 2, 3, or 4, then sword is S:+2 AP:2, Instant Death

*Rationale - I think this reflects the fluff of "the greater the user's faith, the more powerful the sword" and makes it a much more competitive, useful option for its points (as long as it passes the Ld check, it is at least S:+2).

 

 

Now, if I could create one new Relic of my own for DA, it would be:

 

Black Armor of Justice (90 points)

-Terminator Armor Suit which increases the Strength and Toughness of Model by +1.

-Has built-in Storm Bolter and Pair of Lightning Claws which replace all weapons the model originally comes with.

-Grants Deathwing status/Deathwing Assault/Vengeful Strike rules to wearer.

-May only be taken by a Company Master.

 

*Fluff - This is the only surviving Terminator Suit from the battle against the Genestealers which was not painted White. It was worn by the Company Master who led the Deathwing in this battle and, unlike the rest of his brethren, did not paint his armor bone white. When he was slain in the fighting, his armor was recovered and, even when the entire rest of the Deathwing repainted its armor Bone White, the Masters of the Deathwing kept this suit in its original Black paint to honor the fallen Company Master. Since then, it has been stored at the Rock and been given to a Company Master only when he is going on a Mission equally as Suicidal as the original battle against the Genestealers. Despite only being used on such dangerous missions, it has never failed to keep its wearer safe and be returned intact to Sacred Chambers of the Rock.

 

 

Those are my thoughts ;) Would be curious to see what others would do with the DA Relics.

[SickSix]

Yeah, the ranged relics leave MUCH to be desired. I like your ideas.

[elphilo]

I really haven't played with any of the relics that much. But I did play with the Monster Slayer of Caliban, just to see how bad/good it was. And man I would change that thing in a heartbeat. I wouldn't change the mechanics completely and my way might make it a tad bit broken. I'm not sure, I'm not a game designer . But here's how I would change it.

Roll a D6:

1-2: Normal Power Weapon

3-5: +1S, AP3

6: +1S, AP2, Insta Death.

That way the insta death is on an AP2 weapon and it only has like an 11% chance to be totally "zomg golly gee" . Other wise it's an okay weapon.

[Polythemus]

Soulbreaker of caliban: long sword 20pts

Gives a 6++ in close combat, str 5 ap -

Fury of souls special rule: when rolling to hit, each roll of 6, provides an extra attack, when rolling to hit these exta attacks if you roll a one you have hit yourself.

[BigGumbo]

Sounds a bit like a Daemon weapon, there, Polythemus. Is there something you aren't telling us?

[Polythemus]

Muhahahaha...

 

Great power must be weilded with great responsibility (and practice.) hows your sword arm gumbo? :)

 

Seriously, i think that leon is right that there could have been some ways to make the various relics a bit more palatable in theory. With the exception of lions roar and the mace of redemption its tough to take these things. I think most of the options that exist are gonna make it tough to effectively use in a game as you need to keep things cheap to win effectively. Still maybe theres some creative ways to implement relics that we havent thought of yet.

 

I do like the idea of using some sort of a homemade relic as a "carrot" for victory in a campaign. But campaigns are tough since real life tends to get in the way.

[ellis_esquire]

Love your black suit idea!

[L30n1d4s]

Appreciate the feedback and would be interested to hear other people's ideas on DA Relics ;)

 

Here is another stab at one I would add if could to the DA Relics ---

 

Banner of Unyielding Defiance (50 points):

-Makes Banner bearer scoring

-Grants Bearer and any DA Veteran, Tactical, Assault, or Devastator squad the bearer is attached to +1A, makes their CC attacks Rending, and allows them to fire Overwatch at full BS, instead of BS1

-Can only be taken by an Interrogator-Chaplain in Power Armor and not mounted on a Bike

 

*During an incursion by numerous Chaos Warbands from the Eye of Terror in the 37th Millenia, a small Dark Angel detachment of 20 Dark Angel Tactical, Assault, and Devastator Marines, led by a single Interrogator-Chaplain and 5 Veterans, was separated from the rest of the fleet by a warp storm and crash-landed on a planet far away from the main fighting near the Cadian Gate. It just so happened that this planet was a primary staging ground for Chaos reinforcements coming from the Eye of Terror. Despite being vastly outnumbered, the Chaplain swore his Marines to hold the abandoned citadel they had discovered on the planet surface. Since the Marines came from multiple different companies with no common leader, the Chaplain declared them to be part of the "Cohort of Defiance" and crafted a banner from them to fight under using cloth from the robes of each of the Squad's Veteran Sergeants. For the next 40 days, the "Cohort of Defiance" held their position against unremitting assault by hordes of Daemons, cultists, and even Chaos Space Marine Warbands who landed on the planet. When Imperial Forces finally broke through to the planet on the 41st day and landed near the ruined citadel, the only one alive, friend or enemy, was a lone Dark Angel Sergeant, clutching the Banner as he defended the last remaining citadel tower and guarded the body of the chaplain and his companions laying at his feet. Since that time, the Banner has been taken back to the Reclusiam on the Rock and carried by Dark Angel Interrogator-Chaplains when they lead their brethren into battle against immeasureable odds.

[Jehoel]

Nice write up, but since the 13th Black Crusade is just starting/in progress, it would be better to place the story in another place. Maybe along the edge of the Sabbat Worlds crusade.

[L30n1d4s]

Good point ;) I will edit it so that it occurred further back, thereby making more of an "ancient" relic than one that just came up.

[Master Avoghai]

-Mace of Redemption - No change

*Rationale - Great weapon for its costs already and used by many players

Ok so since it's uses by many players it's not broken... If you follow this way then screamers are not broken <_<

 

No offense but when you start a reflexion about modifying things that don't work you must analyze both sides of the thing. If lots of(if not all) players use the Mace, maybe it means that it's effect should be revisited to reflect the point cost. I've even seen people suggesting replacing the Pbolter of a librarian for this weapon! O_o

 

IMHO, GW inverted the points cost of the Mace with the Monster Slayer cost. If you do the switch you'll see that both are interesting for the effects.

 

However I really like the modification you made with the Ld for the Slayer. I think that AP2 should be balanced with a "strike at I1" effect for the Ld5,6,7 result though.

[L30n1d4s]

@Master Avoghai -- Great point, I very much see your argument there and I do agree, the Mace of Redemption actually probably is too powerful.

 

Based on your recommendation, I went back and modified my entry on the Mace to include "Specialist Weapon" (so basically, one less attack in most cases) and a rule that forces the bearer to accept (but not issue) challenges. I think they are reasonable adjustments to make the Mace not the automatic, always take, never leave home without it answer for DA players.

 

As for the Monster Slayer, I disagree with you a little on the part about making it unwieldy once it gets AP2. Remember, you are paying quite a few points for this weapon (150% of what a Thunderhammer costs) and, if you make it unwieldy, then it is simply a less capable, more expensive Thunderhammer (except for the ID part, but the Thunderhammer normally causes Instant Death against all T4 models that don't have EW anyway).

 

Also, if you compare to Chaos Weapons like the Axe of Blind Fury or Khârn's Gorechild or Abbadon's Dreychna (all who are AP2 and strike at full initiative), I think it is entirely reasonable to have the Monster Slayer strike at AP2 and full initiative when it rolls the S+2 AP2 effect from its LD test.

[Master Avoghai]

I won't compare with those weapons for 2 reasons :

- they come from another codex hence other units other game balance.

- they are the special weapons of 2 special characters. You actually don't know how much they cost + their cost is also balanced with the limitations of wargear inducted by the fact that Abbadon and Khârn are special characters.

 

On the other hand I look with the sword of secrets, the sword of silence etc etc and none are AP3... Those are not even "bane of traitors"...

 

I agree nonetheless with your TH comparison but that makes me even surer that the Mace and the slayer have their costs inverted.

My reflexion is guided by this observation and though you don't want to talk about cost I think that it's the most obvious.

 

Don't modify the Mace's rules, just invert the costs and make the Slayer unwieldy at the mid-effect. You'll see that balance will work better.

 

Better is Good's worst enemy, don't start adding more and more rules when a simple switch is enough.

 

 

Oh and btw I think that the Lion's roar is perfectly fine as it is. On the opposite, Azrael's weapon would deserve an assault profile in order not to prevent charging after using its plasma profile.

[cypherthefallenangel]

since we are wish listing. How about ” the holy hand grenade” ? A 50pt single use vortex grenade. 2nd edition style. I can still hear people crying ”golly gee, no saves?” Hehehe, the good ol' days.

[L30n1d4s]

Avoghai -- I guess we will have to agree to disagree with this

 

Appreciate your thoughts and detailed inputs/analytical thinking, though ;)

[facmanpob]

since we are wish listing. How about ” the holy hand grenade” ?

3 shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be 3. 5 is right out!

[FerociousBeast]

 

IMHO, GW inverted the points cost of the Mace with the Monster Slayer cost. If you do the switch you'll see that both are interesting for the effects.

 

I was thinking the same thing. It makes no sense whatsoever for the Monster Slayer to be more expensive than the Mace. The ONLY benefit it has is a 1/3 chance each turn to have Instant Death. Which admittedly makes it more likely to ID Monsters (hence the name), but only 1/3 of the time. The rest of the time, the Mace with its higher strength is bashing Monsters (and everything else) to death the old fashioned way, one wound at a time. And meanwhile it's ID-ing T3 and rad-effected T4 models 100% of the time.