Relictors info

[Lord Kallozar]

hi all.

 

just wanna know a bit more info about the relictors. some people say that they have been declared heretics and cast from the emperors light, whilst other people claim that they are have not been declared renegade at all. which is true??

 

also do they appear in any official black library novels or short stories?

[deathspectersgt7]

well brother it depends who the source is,but from what  I HAVE READ  I would say no. They appear in ARCHITECT OF FATE SPACE MARINE BATTLES NOVEL,and the CRUSADE FOR ARMAGEDDON, and CONQUEST FOR OF ARMAGEDDON by JONATHAN GREEN.

[Bannus]

As I mentioned in the other Relictors thread, there is some serious contradictions among the GW fluff surrounding this Chapter. However, since only one small blurb in a single WD magazine supports the heretic/excomunicatus angle, I would give it less weight than other sources. 

[The Yak]

There was an old Index Astartes article in White Dwarf 281 which explained how the Relictors had started using Chaos weaponry and relics against Chaos itself. This first happened whilst working alongside Inquisitor De Marche (since executed for Heresy) and the Relictors were actually the Fire Claws at the time.

 

When The Inquisition discovered that what they were up to they demanded they hand over the weapons and De Marches but did not declare them traitor extremis. Instead with an amazing stroke of originality the High Lords sent them on.... Yep you guessed it a century long penitent crusade.

 

Now this is were it gets interesting... Whilst on this crusade they fought at Armageddon but refused to acknowledge the authority of that whily old crone Dante of the Fancy Tarts, sorry I mean Blood Angels. They then hung around Angrons Monolith for a bit and then left the battle zone with no explanation......

 

In another issue of white dwarf (and I cant find the bugger) there was an article stating how the relictors were responsible for a raid on an Imperial research centre and responsible for the deaths of Inquisitorial Representatives. If I re call correctly that is when they were declared very naughty boys.

 

However the Imperium is a big place and you know what it is like for rumours so you can go down any route you like with your Relictors if you ask me.

[Anvilarium]

hi all.

 

just wanna know a bit more info about the relictors. some people say that they have been declared heretics and cast from the emperors light, whilst other people claim that they are have not been declared renegade at all. which is true??

 

Hi Lord Kallozar,

 

All of the Relictors background (Index Astartes/White Dwarf Articles) can be found on my old Relictors website here:

http://relictors.moonfruit.com/

The main articles to check out are in the Background Section, where I have transcribed the old WD articles for players such as yourself.

You should read the Index Astartes: Relictors first, and then follow up with Chaoticians & Cataclysms and Extremis Diabolus. These three articles chronicle the history of the Relictors right up until the end of the current 40K timeline, where their were declared excommunicate traitoris by the Ordo Malleus and were decimated by the Grey Knights. This occurred just after the end of the 13th Black Crusade.

 

As I mentioned in the other Relictors thread, there is some serious contradictions among the GW fluff surrounding this Chapter. However, since only one small blurb in a single WD magazine supports the heretic/excomunicatus angle, I would give it less weight than other sources. 

 

Bannus, there are no contradictions - just misunderstandings. The 5th Edition Space Marine Codex lists the Relictors as a chapter still loyal to the Imperium, however this statement and the above events after the 13th Black Crusade can co-exist if you take the Codex's statement to be set earlier in the current 40K timeline.

 

Thusly, depending on what time period your Relictors are based in, they can be either Loyalists, Penitent Crusaders or Excommunicate Traitoris.

 

My Relictors were survivors from the Grey Knight's purge on their Fortress Monastery, The Sky Fortress. They were comprised of elements of the 1st & 2nd Companies, and led by Chief Librarian Otheos and several supporting Conclave members.

[The Yak]

Nice website there Urza.

[deathspectersgt7]

yes i agree great website learned some new perspective on relictors. looks like i'm going to start another force of marines.

[Ioldanach]

The only confusion in the timeline comes down to the Chaos Space Marines codex, which mentions the Relictors during M.33 despite the Index Astartes article telling us that they were from the Cursed Founding (M.35) - and perhaps the fact that they were known as the Fire Claws prior to collecting Chaos widgets (which appears to have taken place only recently).

[Lord Kallozar]

Cheers for the info guys.

 

Urza - that is a quality site, top stuff!! The Relictors really are an intrigueing bunch!!

 

Another question or two:-

 

1. Would you consider the Relictors as sinister?

 

2. How do the Relictors view themselves? Are they staunch believers in the Imperium (kinda Ultramarine style) OR do they have their own agenda and will willingly destroy any innocense/Imperial to achieve their ultimate goal (despite still being loyalists)?

[Bonsai Monkey]

Hello,

 

Although I havnt done much with my relictors for a while other than add a storm talon? (it didnt really seem to fit the army) I always liked to place mine after they had been bashed abit by the grey knights and what was left of them were running around in an almost war band fashion trying to grab what they could to carry on there goal of smiting chaos with chaos stuff. In that, they would do what they had to? If it meant taking equipment and supplies from someone (including battle battered marines) they would. Thinking of the bigger picture as it was.

 

If I had the painting skill, I always wanted to do battle damage with other chapters colours showing through on the vehicles, bikes and armour. A little bit magpieish. But I havnt so at the moment they are just grey? Oneday maybe?

[Messanger of Death]

Jonathan Green's novel Conquest of Armageddon offers some insight into a Captain of the Relictors. The character is 2-dimensional (like all of Mr Green's Loyalist Space Marines). However, it will give you some ideas if your willing to read the Omnibus (or just the last part of the last book if your not interested in reading the series).

[Brother Tyler]

1. Would you consider the Relictors as sinister?

 

Very much so.

 

2. How do the Relictors view themselves? Are they staunch believers in the Imperium (kinda Ultramarine style) OR do they have their own agenda and will willingly destroy any innocense/Imperial to achieve their ultimate goal (despite still being loyalists)?

 

Assuming your question concerns the chapter subsequent to the practice of collecting Chaos artifacts, I would say that they view themselves as morally empowered to use any means necessary. The story of the Diamedes Archive illustrates this perfectly - they were willing to attack other members of the Imperium in order to secure an item that they thought would be useful to them in their quest. Your either/or phrasing is too limited as they can be both staunch believers in the Imperium and have their own agenda. I would speculate, however, that they think that they remain loyal to the Imperium, but their willingness to kill other servants of the Imperium (that aren't in rebellion or otherwise disloyal) might indicate that they have already begun to slide down that slippery slope to damnation.

 

As for the other comment about the timeline anomaly of M.33, I have a theory that I've alluded to before. The theory is that there was another older Chapter that was known as the Relictors and this Chapter used Chaos artifacts. When the (original) Relictors were discovered, they were destroyed and became a morality tale for others. So when the Fire Claws started doing the same thing, those that knew of the Relictors began to call the Fire Claws by that name, and the name has since stuck.

 

This theory only works if the whole M.33 thing is a mistake and not a deliberate revision to the lore, of course.

[dogfender]

The whole idea of punishing the Relictors for using chaos weaponry is kinda silly now, given that Castellan Crowe of the Grey Knights uses a demon weapon himself, to combat chaos with. It would seem GW has conflicting fluff to me, and has forgotten about the Relictors. This instance may be why they have not touched on them.

[Lord Kallozar]

Thanks for the responses guys! This is helping me build up a good in depth profile of this wayward chapter.

 

Brother Tyler - you said that you do view the Relictors as sinister, now i know that this may sound really stupid to ask BUT why in your opinion/view do you see the Relictors as sinister? (sounds silly i know but i like to build up a real in deoth picture with peoples opinions included)

[Brother Tyler]

sin·is·ter [sin-uh-ster]

adjective

1. threatening or portending evil, harm, or trouble; ominous: a sinister remark.

2. bad, evil, base, or wicked; fell: his sinister purposes.

3. unfortunate; disastrous; unfavorable: a sinister accident.

4. of or on the left side; left.

5. Heraldry. noting the side of an escutcheon or achievement of arms that is to the left of the bearer ( opposed to dexter ).

 

My usage of "sinister" with regard to the Fire Claws/Relictors falls more in line with 1, 3, and 4. They are not sinister in the sense of 2 in that they haven't turned to Chaos (yet), but their willingness to kill fellow Imperial servants (re: Diamedes Archive) fulfills 1, 3, and 4 in my mind. They certainly don't see themselves that way, of course. To them, they are accepting a great deal of risk because they think it is the right thing to do if it will yield results in the ongoing war against the Great Enemy.

 

As for Castellan Crowe, the Grey Knights' usage of Chaos weaponry is a closely guarded secret - even more so than the actual existence of the Grey Knights. Moreover, only a certain segment of the Grey Knights are allowed to do this. I don't see this as inconsistent so much as it is hypocritical and indicative of varying viewpoints within the Inquisition. This is emblematic of the struggle between Radicals and Puritans. It provides depth and complexity (rather than inconsistency).

 

My own Fire Claws army is set during the period right after they began collecting Chaos items, before they got caught.

[Lord Kallozar]

Thanks for the clear up on that Brother Tyler.

 

Another question that may seem stupid but im unsure of.... do ALL relictors marines know of their "path down the darker route" and collecting/usage of chaos weapons and artifacts, or do only a small selected number of the chapter know of this?

[deathspectersgt7]

From what I  have read they all know.

[Lord Kallozar]

Awesome, cheers!

 

One more thing, what exactly is the conclave and who are its members? Is the entire first company the conclave? Or are sergeants and vet companies the conclave?

[Brother Tyler]

To correct a previous reply, not everyone in the Chapter knows the secrets of the Chapter. From the Index Astartes article:

The Chapter's command ranks are gathered together in a group known as the Conclave, and every decision concerning the Chapter's deployment and operational doctrine is made here. Only those proven in combat and of guaranteed purity are permitted to rise to become members of the Conclave and privy to the true nature of the Chapter. As a warrior rises through the ranks, he is gradually initiated deeper into the Chapter's mysteries. When he is judged worthy to join the Conclave, the truth about the powerful weapons wielded by its senior officers is finally revealed...

I would guess that the Conclave is comparable to the officer/veteran corps of any Chapter, including the captains (and Chapter Master, chaplains, librarians, standard bearers, and the honour guard at the very least. It might potentially include the entire 1st Company (and former members of that company that might be assigned to other companies). The Conclave likely isn't as small as the Inner Circle of the Unforgiven Chapters, however - it's probably more in line with the Deathwing (the organization, not the company).

[Lord Kallozar]

 

To correct a previous reply, not everyone in the Chapter knows the secrets of the Chapter. From the Index Astartes article:

The Chapter's command ranks are gathered together in a group known as the Conclave, and every decision concerning the Chapter's deployment and operational doctrine is made here. Only those proven in combat and of guaranteed purity are permitted to rise to become members of the Conclave and privy to the true nature of the Chapter. As a warrior rises through the ranks, he is gradually initiated deeper into the Chapter's mysteries. When he is judged worthy to join the Conclave, the truth about the powerful weapons wielded by its senior officers is finally revealed...

I would guess that the Conclave is comparable to the officer/veteran corps of any Chapter, including the captains (and Chapter Master, chaplains, librarians, standard bearers, and the honour guard at the very least. It might potentially include the entire 1st Company (and former members of that company that might be assigned to other companies). The Conclave likely isn't as small as the Inner Circle of the Unforgiven Chapters, however - it's probably more in line with the Deathwing (the organization, not the company).

 

Thanks brother tyler once again. Your help has been most appreciated mate!

 

Thats interesting that not all the chapter know of the dodgy dealings that their chapter is up to! It is safe to presume that most of the chapter would know right? I mean how can you be in constant contact/surroundings of your chapter and not notice quests that end up in collecting chaos relics or see vets carrying chaos weaponry around??

So im guessing that its only initiates and those in scout training are not fully aware of whats going on - then when made fully astertes im guessing that they are knowledged with pretty much all that goes on and all the dark dealings etc (but not everything) - then when inducted into the conclave im guessing everything is revealed such as the history of relic collecting from the beginning, training in all chaos weaponry, access to full arsenal of unholy artifacts and (as the index astartes article above states) "the truth".

 

By the way, any ideas on what the truth could mean? Is there some dark mystery about the relictors? Or does it simply refer to the truth as in relic hunting?

 

And another thing (sorry to be a right pain) but would it be viable fluff wise to kitbash chaos armour with imperial armour for modelling space marines? Would relictors use chaos armour?

Edited February 17, 2013 by Lord Kallozar

[Brother Tyler]

The "truth" is the fact that the Chapter collects and, more importantly, uses Chaos artifacts. Other Chapters (and organizations of the Imperium) are known to collect Chaos artifacts, but they either keep them secreted away in vaults or otherwise get rid of them (destroy them, turn them over to the Inquisition, etc.). Many players will point to the Axe Morkai wielded by Logan Grimnar of the Space Wolves as an example, though that weapon was purified and reconsecrated. The Index Astartes article on Librarians, for example, mentions that some Chapters have heretical texts locked away within the most inner chambers of their Librariums. Castellan Crowe of the Grey Knights has already been brought up, though the Grey Knights stand apart from other Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes.

 

It's not that the Fire Claws/Relictors use the items carried by Chaos Space Marines. Rather, they use the weapons of Chaos. The distinction here is that the weapons the Fire Claws/Relictors are apt to use are those that are imbued with the essence of the Warp and/or daemons (though one might argue that the two are one and the same). Simple exposure to the Warp (such as Chaos Space Marine items) isn't sufficient. So daemon weapons, heretical texts, and icons of Chaos are the items more likely to be found in the hands of members of the Conclave. Personally, I think that the Fire Claws'/Relictors' purity of purpose would prevent them from sullying their hands with lesser items - they want the big things that are likely to have a real effect on the denizens of the Warp. In terms of their own armour and equipment, I would think that they would strive for purity (i.e., clearly loyalist equipment).

 

All that said, it really comes down to how you view the Chapter. For those that see them already fallen to Chaos without knowing it, it wouldn't be inappropriate to see "mundane" Chaos items. Ultimately, it's your army so you should use whatever suits your aesthetics.

[Astral Pathfinder]

If I'm not mistaken, the power fists used by Marneus Calgar himself was taken from a defeated champion of Chaos.

 

About the Relictors, it seems to be another point of fluff left to a time the future was grimer and darker...

[Lord Kallozar]

The "truth" is the fact that the Chapter collects and, more importantly, uses Chaos artifacts. Other Chapters (and organizations of the Imperium) are known to collect Chaos artifacts, but they either keep them secreted away in vaults or otherwise get rid of them (destroy them, turn them over to the Inquisition, etc.). Many players will point to the Axe Morkai wielded by Logan Grimnar of the Space Wolves as an example, though that weapon was purified and reconsecrated. The Index Astartes article on Librarians, for example, mentions that some Chapters have heretical texts locked away within the most inner chambers of their Librariums. Castellan Crowe of the Grey Knights has already been brought up, though the Grey Knights stand apart from other Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes.

 

It's not that the Fire Claws/Relictors use the items carried by Chaos Space Marines. Rather, they use the weapons of Chaos. The distinction here is that the weapons the Fire Claws/Relictors are apt to use are those that are imbued with the essence of the Warp and/or daemons (though one might argue that the two are one and the same). Simple exposure to the Warp (such as Chaos Space Marine items) isn't sufficient. So daemon weapons, heretical texts, and icons of Chaos are the items more likely to be found in the hands of members of the Conclave. Personally, I think that the Fire Claws'/Relictors' purity of purpose would prevent them from sullying their hands with lesser items - they want the big things that are likely to have a real effect on the denizens of the Warp. In terms of their own armour and equipment, I would think that they would strive for purity (i.e., clearly loyalist equipment).

 

All that said, it really comes down to how you view the Chapter. For those that see them already fallen to Chaos without knowing it, it wouldn't be inappropriate to see "mundane" Chaos items. Ultimately, it's your army so you should use whatever suits your aesthetics.

 

Cheers mate! Makes sense. Once again the help is most appreciated!

 

So fluff wise and game wise - It is only the conclave that use of chaos weaponry, right? So game wise/model wise how would it be best to equip a chapter masters retinue of 5 t assault terminators? Chaos looking weaponry on each?

[dogfender]

If youre lookin to make an army there are quite a few ways you can go about making these guys using the 'count as'.

I haven't had a chance to read up on the new DA codex but the new inner circle knights seems like something that could be an easy rep for the conclave.

You could pair any type of marine chapter with a small allied force of GKs and have them count as the inner circle chaos weapon badies (and they have chaos).

Or you could use the chaos codex and stray away from things like cultists and mutants.. unless you want them to have it all of course. I would recommend thousand sons rules. The relictors are said to have higher than usual librarians, which you could have as sorcerers in each squad, and the special bolters? Well they used special chaos imbued ammo or guns. And you get chaos standards. You could even use obliderators as count as demon hosts (which you could take in the old WD articles).

 

Either way its up to your imagination =D

[Lord Kallozar]

If youre lookin to make an army there are quite a few ways you can go about making these guys using the 'count as'.

I haven't had a chance to read up on the new DA codex but the new inner circle knights seems like something that could be an easy rep for the conclave.

You could pair any type of marine chapter with a small allied force of GKs and have them count as the inner circle chaos weapon badies (and they have chaos).

Or you could use the chaos codex and stray away from things like cultists and mutants.. unless you want them to have it all of course. I would recommend thousand sons rules. The relictors are said to have higher than usual librarians, which you could have as sorcerers in each squad, and the special bolters? Well they used special chaos imbued ammo or guns. And you get chaos standards. You could even use obliderators as count as demon hosts (which you could take in the old WD articles).

 

Either way its up to your imagination =D

 

Cheers for that suggestion.

Funnily enough just before you posted your message i posted about how to equip the conclave lol! Im gonna try make a 1500 list for the relictors but unsure on what codex to use as of yet and how to best "counts as" the chaos weaponry used by the conclave (5 assault terminators)