Relictors info

[dogfender]

Haha too funny.

 

Initially when I was going to roll Relictors the WD rules became obsolete. So using the 5th ed chaos codex seemed like a good idea, tk sons for sorcerers (count as librarians) who have force swords (count as chaos weapon). Pretty much taking everything the standard marines have, plus obliderators for count as demon hosts.

 

Now with the new codex I am not sure about the chaos book. I would look into using relic blades, and force weapons as count as chaos weapons. I know the DA codex has some neat new special weapons that you could use. But then again those grey knights as count as conclave is something I am leaning twords myself. They have better gear and their stats would reflect their ability to handle such weaponry.

 

Again, its just a matter of how you want to tool out your team. I would look into the DA codex though.

[Anvilarium]

The only confusion in the timeline comes down to the Chaos Space Marines codex, which mentions the Relictors during M.33 despite the Index Astartes article telling us that they were from the Cursed Founding (M.35) - and perhaps the fact that they were known as the Fire Claws prior to collecting Chaos widgets (which appears to have taken place only recently).

 

The Relictors aren't from the Cursed Founding. They were originally designated the Fire Claws are are believed to be one of the Astartes Praeses - 20 Chapters which were created around M36 with the explicit purpose of bolstering defences around the Eye of Terror.

 

Cheers for the info guys.

 

Urza - that is a quality site, top stuff!! The Relictors really are an intrigueing bunch!!

 

Another question or two:-

 

1. Would you consider the Relictors as sinister?

 

2. How do the Relictors view themselves? Are they staunch believers in the Imperium (kinda Ultramarine style) OR do they have their own agenda and will willingly destroy any innocense/Imperial to achieve their ultimate goal (despite still being loyalists)?

 

1) I'd consider them very sinister indeed.

 

2) I would say that they have their own agenda - they believe that the laws, rules & procedures of the Imperium & Inquisition are shackles that are stopping Humanity from acheiving it's goal of defeating Chaos. The Relictors believe themselves to be utterly pure of spirit and incorruptable - they only allow the strongest of the strong spirited to use Chaos Artefacts, and even then only after weeks of puritifcation rituals. I would say that they view themselves as being as pure as the Grey Knights or Black Templars, but they definitely follow their own agenda.

[Ioldanach]

Ah, you are correct, sir, in that the Index Astartes article says only that the chapter was created in M.36 "during the ... Age of Apostasy." I was under the impression that the chapter was part of the 21st Founding because that had been mentioned several times in discussion here at the B&C. This creates an interesting situation, however, as the 21st Founding happened in late M.35 before the Age of Apostasy and the 22nd Founding took place in M.37 after the Age of Apostasy. So there are three alternatives that I see.

 

First, the authors of the Index Astartes article were a bit confused on the dates and the chapter was actually created as part of the Cursed Founding. Many players infer that the possibility that the gene-seed of the Relictors is mixed (Ultramarines/Dark Angels) is an indicator that it was part of that founding in which the gene-seed of the Adeptus Astartes was tampered with, leading to later gene-seed mutation/failure. The Relictors, however, don't appear to have gene-seed mutation/failure, unless you consider a willingness to use Chaos gadgets to be genetic.

 

Second, the M.36 date is correct and the Relictors weren't part of either the 21st or 22nd Foundings, instead being created outside of the normal founding structure. This is a very interesting alternative as it opens the door to all kinds of rampant speculation about who might have authorized/conducted this founding and what their motives may have been. Also, one would wonder if the Relictors were the only chapter created in part of this non-founding or if other chapters may have been created alongside them. By extension, there is the implication that such an event might not be isolated and that other non-founding chapters exist. Perhaps the 13th "Dark" Founding was the only time that such an event came to be known to the authorities and there are other secret dark/non-foundings that have taken place over the years. One might look to the Exorcists as a possible example, with that chapter apparently being created some time around M.36, but as part of the/a "dark" founding.

 

Third, perhaps the histories are wrong - either mistaken or falsified - and the Relictors weren't created in M.36. They may, indeed, date from M.33 or earlier as the Feral Wars reference in the Chaos Space Marines codex indicates. Alternatively, perhaps some older chapter assumed a new identity in M.36, re-creating themselves as the Fire Claws. We could speculate all day long on the motives such a hypothetical chapter may have had.

 

This is all very entertaining (rampant) speculation on my part, I'll admit.

 

The Astartes Praesus chapters, however,  weren't created as part of a single founding. The White Consuls and Excoriators were created as part of the 2nd Founding while the founding dates of the other known Astartes Praesus chapters is unknown, with most/all assumed to have been created later (until GW tells us otherwise, naturally).

[Anvilarium]

Ah, you are correct, sir, in that the Index Astartes article says only that the chapter was created in M.36 "during the ... Age of Apostasy." I was under the impression that the chapter was part of the 21st Founding because that had been mentioned several times in discussion here at the B&C.

 

The Relictors definitely were not a Cursed Founding Chapter. A lot of people seem to confuse the Fire Claws (Relictors), with the Fire Hawks, who were a Cursed founding Chapter and went on to (supposedly) become the Legion of the Damned.

[Ioldanach]

Oh, I was definitely not confusing the Fire Claws with the Fire Hawks.

 

"Definitely" as a descriptor for the Fire Claws not being part of the 21st Founding only works if we assume that the given founding date of M.36 is accurate and that "during the Age of Apostasy" means exactly that. The fluff dates for the 21st Founding can be vague. In one Index Astartes article, it is given as "immediately before the Age of Apostasy." The 6th edition rulebook, meanwhile, gives the date of the 21st Founding as 991.M35 and the Age of Apostasy as starting in 200.M36. Whether or not 209 years equates to "immediately" might be up to debate. For those that think it works, then the Fire Claws were part of the 22nd Founding (or later). As far as I know, no date is given for the 22nd Founding, though some players have inferred that the 22nd Founding took place in 555.M37 (source). I believe that speculation is based on the date of the 23rd Founding being known (from the Imperial Armor Badab War books) and from the dates of the Occlusiad as given in the rulebooks. Again, though, if the M.36 founding date ascribed for the Relictors in the IA article is accurate, then the 22nd Founding, too, would be out of the question. So this would lead towards the possibility of the Relictors being created outside of an official founding.

 

Alternately, the M.36 reference might be slightly inaccurate, pointing to one of the other two alternatives I provided.

 

So the M.36 reference gets us in the ballpark of either the Cursed Founding (which we now know took place in M.35) or a dark founding (not the 13th Founding, though) while the M.33 reference gets us either a retcon to before M.36 or some other chapter that went by the "same" name.

 

On this, I would say that we don't have enough information to draw any definitive conclusions. I can see where you're coming from, but I'm open to alternatives based on the information available to us.