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Where do you want the Heresy to end?


Kol Saresk

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In another thread, someone brought up how the Iron Cage has basically two stories: The IF version of Dorn forging his Legion on the anvil of war and the IW where Dorn blundered into a trap he almost didn't walk out of. Anyway, the same person mentioned that whoever wrote it, at least one of those tales would be busted and forever lost. And I thought to myself, what about the Siege of Terra?

 

There are so many differet stories about it already like, the World Eaters being the first to take the walls, Zso Sahaal's Raptors being the first to land on them and the Iron Warriors being the first to breach. And as much as I want to see the Siege written out, I can't help but think that showing it in all of its glory will somehow ruin the story. What do you guys think?

That's a reasonable fear, as many 40k veterans are already disappointed by the HH series as it ruins the awesomeness of what they have known to make another.

The boy who read the IA article on the siege of the palace that still lies within me wants to know more about it, but the grown man fears it would end up badly made.

I don't know how they would be able to write about the siege or even the fight between the emperor and Horus itself, it just seems to grand to fit into a book, and even then that fight scene would be too epic to be done quickly.

 

I dont think I'd be too pissed if the series ended with the traitor fleet arriving in orbit over terra and just about to land/bombard, fully thinking they have one, with a small after paragraph of something describing the incoming reinforcements from some random astropath amidst the battle.

 

Also I always imagined how amazing the horus heresy must be for someone to read if they have no idea what happens at all. The title would be quite a spoiler, but even then I'd imagine istvaan III/V being a 'holycrap not expecting that' moment for new readers.

I concur with most of the thoughts expressed already - I don't want it to end in essence, because I love the storytelling element, and I do not know how they could finish it without leaving many people disappointed. We know what happens - but it's how it is told by whomever that is important - and, will create a lasting legacy.

 

I like the idea of having that cliffhanger, and we can decide for ourselves... in our mind's eye... so to speak.

That's basically the Horus Heresy series in a nutshell, though - lots of detail in exchange for the loss of ambiguity and a lot of scope for imagination.

 

Which is better? Depends on your POV. But I do think the Siege of Terra is definitely something that won't lend itself well to depiction in a novel series (even leaving aside any question of the quality of the novels themselves). It's really big. And really overlapping. And really long.

 

One book won't be enough. More than one book will be messy and conflicting. So it goes.

Personally I'd like the Siege of Terra to be the final event of the heresy - once all is said and done about it, that's that. Horus Heresy done. And then we can move onto the Scouring. biggrin.png

This.

Somehow I think heresy will be dragged for a long, looong time...

Also are some of you guys afraid that heresy will lose that mytical setting once is over?

I always thought the the official end of the Heresy is Horus' death in the hands of the Emperor. Everything from then on is another Chapter called the Scouring - an era where the Cage belongs as well as other events (even the Fall of Caliban).

 

So yes, I'd like to see multiple books to cover the Siege of Terra columnating in the Emperor-Horus duel and the subsequent results but then I'd like a new series to come forth: The Scouring. This lasted as long as the Heresy itself, and is the connecting part of 30k with 40k. There is enough material there already from politics (introduction of the Codex, reorganization of the Imperium, some Legions coping without their Primarchs) to outright conflict such as the afformentioned Cage or the Fall of Caliban or other battles between loyalists and Traitors but also the clashes between the Traitors (Skalathrax) where their different takes of why they participated in the Heresy in the first place take shape...

Ok, well most views are the expected cliffhangar view. For those who want to see the Siege being written, would you like a single novel or a single author covering the event, or do you want multiple authors to create that "conflicted" account where anyone can still walk away with whatever they want?

I'd like to see the siege done as a collection of short stories with different protagonists and point of views written by several authors, if they can somehow make those short stories interconnect with each other to create a bigger view of the whole thing then it's perfect

Personally, I'd like the final chapter to be "Set course for terra" and then a 2 page epilogue of Horus talking everything that lead to the point where is above Terra, armies about to breach the palace. Finally, he turns to the bridge and says "Lower the shields, it's time"

Ok, well most views are the expected cliffhangar view. For those who want to see the Siege being written, would you like a single novel or a single author covering the event, or do you want multiple authors to create that "conflicted" account where anyone can still walk away with whatever they want?

 

Personally I want the format to follow one of two routes - 1) Either have a 'main novel' and a follow up anthology, allowing lots of small bites of the cherry and one definitive book on the subject, or 2) treat it as a trilogy and have it echo the format of the opening trilogy, bookending the series. 

 

Ok, well most views are the expected cliffhangar view. For those who want to see the Siege being written, would you like a single novel or a single author covering the event, or do you want multiple authors to create that "conflicted" account where anyone can still walk away with whatever they want?

 

Personally I want the format to follow one of two routes - 1) Either have a 'main novel' and a follow up anthology, allowing lots of small bites of the cherry and one definitive book on the subject, or 2) treat it as a trilogy and have it echo the format of the opening trilogy, bookending the series. 

 

Yeah, I agree with Oli on this part, specifically Item the Second.  There's so many different parts to the Siege of the Emperor's Palace that it's going to take more than one novel and some short stories to cover them all without angering some readers.  Khan's wild ride, Fulgrim and company galivanting around, the Dies Irae and the Iron Warriors actually knocking the walls down, Sigismund and his series of challenges, Sangy and Ka'Bandha Round Two, the inevitable clash on the Vengeful Spirit; Hell, we could even see Valdor fighting tooth and nail to keep the daemons out of the Palace's basement.

I like the idea of the series ending at the very brink of the invasion of Terra, just as the very first shot is fired. We all know what happens after that, the mythology is too strong to re-write, it'd be like re-writing the bible! having said that, I think they may possibly carry the series on past the death of Horus, and the aftermath. I dont really want the series to end if im honest!

My personal feeling is that I'd like to see the beginning of the invasion. Only because at the moment there are two Abyss-class king-ships that I want to know how they were destroyed and I want to know how the Phalanx survived the Siege. After that, I think I could be happy with a cliffhanger of Horus and the Traitors watching as the first shuttles landed on Terra.

I'd like to see that old story of the Emperor versus Horus included, maybe rewritten, but I love that story, for years that story summed up the Heresy for me. As a young teen, before the Heresy stories were thought of, that story was the Heresy.

 

http://www.inisfail.com/archives/emperor-vs-horus.html Link for anyone who doesn't know it.

Here's how it will go down (I didnt say this is how I want it to go down)
We will get the cliffhanger. Horus just about to order bombardment/deployment. Or the Emps just about to teleport with Sangy and Dorny. Maybe it will end with Olanus Pious  rolling his successful Look Out, Sir!  Heresy series will end, perhaps the Scouring will begin. But either way, there will be a large gap at the end of the Heresy. 

THEN BL will release a super limited edition, gold backed, purity sealed issue of 300 novels personally signed by some goof pretending to be Constantin Valdor, who for penance for his failure went into a time machine to Terra's past to sell books about the glory that was (will be) the Imperium of man. 

Faithful readers will have to read about it from the lucky/deepest pocketed few's discussion of the novella (it wasnt actually that big in the end) on internet forums, and decide that the 100 bucks they spent on the 2nd edition Codex Imperialis beats any rendering of the story to date. 

 

 

Im not actually a bitter person

I dont want one book, i want a couple of books.. Might a book from every legions point of view? There is no way you can descripe the final battle in one book.

 

And when we are on that subject, my greatest fear is that one of the "bad" writers ruins it.. if it was up to me the following writers should write the following:

 

ADB = Night lords, word bearers (Anthony reynolds did a superb work on the omnibus so he could write this too), The Custodian battle in the webbway.

Graham McNiell = Iron Warriors, Emperors Children, Thousand Sons

James Swallow = Blood Angels

Gav Thorpe = Raven Guard, Alpha Legion

Dan Abnett = Sons of Horus, but NOT the final battle (Horus vs Emperor), that fight is for.. i would say ADB would portray this battle in the most epic way.

 

And as i said, 1 book / legion. And then i am speaking of the battle itself. 

If the series ended before the final battle, let alone at the start of the Siege of Terra, and showed next to none of it, the authors would be crucified and mauled for the rest of their lives, for giving tens of thousands of fans the most severe case of blue balls in any fandom's history.


It sounds lofty and idealistic to say aborting the series then preserves integrity, but remember, the Siege of Terra is the part that's already had the most written about it, and if it was really that sacred, it wouldn't be the most detailed part, nor would the final battle have already been written years ago in a short story.


I totally agree there are a lot of mysteries revealed over the course of the series that I'd have preferred to stay much less open (and in something like this you're always going to have a wild variance of opinion on what "should" and "should never" be seen, with every single person disagreeing somewhere along the continuum), but you've got to be realistic with these things. If the series really did stop at the beginning of the Siege, 99% of the fans would be absolutely furious.

 

It wouldn't be preserving any integrity. It would be shafting the readers and not giving a damn about them, as well as narrative poison. Return of the King didn't end when Frodo makes it to the Mordor border, and feels a little bit tired. Return of the Jedi didn't end when the rebels arrive at Endor and Darth Vader is stood on a ship musing over what presences he feels. The Siege of Troy doesn't end in the ninth year with the Greeks stood outside the walls wondering what to do.


Not showing the endings of those stories wouldn't preserve the mystique or integrity, especially when we already know how they end.

 

Jesus, just imagining the absolutely vitriolic, depthless fan-rage we'd be subject to, if we ended it pre-Siege, makes my blood run cold. I can already see the reviews, the attacks on forums, the inboxes full of hatred.

Ok, well most views are the expected cliffhangar view. For those who want to see the Siege being written, would you like a single novel or a single author covering the event, or do you want multiple authors to create that "conflicted" account where anyone can still walk away with whatever they want?

 

Well of course we'd like to see different points of view, so everyone could be right, in his own way.

 

Personally I'd like Horus Heresy to end with first Black Crusade, I think it will denominate single point in history when the Galaxy is how we know it now.

 

Also, I completely agree with Kol Saresk, some of novels go too far, especially those ones who say it for the whole Legion. Writing right after A D-B give me a good example: The First Heretic is one of my all-time favourite HH novels, it succeeded in everything: showing possession from inside, showing the Lorgar's side of the story, and still telling us only about a small group of Word Bearers, preserving everything old fans liked about their Legion. With that kind of story - siege of Terra will be awesome, nothing to afraid. And on the other side Prince of Crows makes me depressed, because it tells us about the whole Legion, so now my old fluff becomes obsolete, and now I'm not sure how Sahaal ended up with his view of the Legion if it was that obvious by the time of Heresy.

 

But the most important thing is still not to talk about 2 lost Legions, because that will ruin A LOT!

Jesus, just imagining the absolutely vitriolic, depthless fan-rage we'd be subject to, if we ended it pre-Siege, makes my blood run cold. I can already see the reviews, the attacks on forums, the inboxes full of hatred.

Just another day of being a Black Library author pinch.gif

I think that if it is going to be told, from multiple perspectives, from multiple authors, lends the most credence and excitement, I want to see what various authors do with it, the line of enquiry that they take and their craft - I think it could be fantastic - but we're talking several books...

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