Kol Saresk Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Btw theory on "forced traitor " goes into garbage from that moment...That's partially why I have been saying that he wasn't prodded into damnation, but that he walked into it willingly because he thought he could best the devil. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271172-what-happens-if-magnus-does-not-go-to-terra/page/3/#findComment-3307986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 ^ Yeah friend, tell that to TS fan's.....they will rip you apart.... I mean every time I asked why did Magnus choose Horus, nobody gave me straight answer.....It's always "he didn't have a choice, he was cornered, either that or he becomes target"..... I even feel sorry for him, right to this moment, which totally puts a shade into his tragic character... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271172-what-happens-if-magnus-does-not-go-to-terra/page/3/#findComment-3308196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I would argue that it's a positive shade, at least compared to the alternative of "patsy fall guy chump." Got an appropriate quotation too: "He who would sup with Beelzebub had best bring a long spoon." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271172-what-happens-if-magnus-does-not-go-to-terra/page/3/#findComment-3308203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Positive to his charcter complexity, but bad moraly.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271172-what-happens-if-magnus-does-not-go-to-terra/page/3/#findComment-3308223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Hawk Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 if Horus's forces had somehow opened the warp without Magnus.No offense, but even in the original continuity Horus' forces are opening the warp without Magnus. Lorgar is the one doing all the work. Even now two hears after the Heresy has opened up, about two and a half years after Prospero has been burned, Magnus still has not fully joined the Traitors. Yes, he deliberates with them as the Imperium declared him a Traitor the moment he ran from Russ. Bu there lies the biggest problem, we don't know what would happen if Magnus didn't destroy the wards on Terra other than the daemonic incursion would have been the same as whatever it was before Magnus bungled it up. The Emperor may still have arrested Magnus for his crimes as at the time, he would be "falsely" accusing Horus of crimes he has yet to commit while still breaking the Edict of Nikea. The accusing takes place just after Davin. The Heresy has yet to truly develop. The "purgings" haven't even happened yet. Right now, accusing Horus of treachery is like saying the U.S. Vice President is hatching a conspiracy to assassinate the President with nothing more than a gut feeling. Granted, in the long run it will mean that the Emperor will have the chance to participate in the Heresy at a much earlier stage. But for Magnus, who can say. Touche, but in my interpretation of The Outcast Dead, it was Magnus's arrival on Terra that destroyed the wards there. That's what I meant by 'openig the Warp without Magnus (I really should have been clearer). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271172-what-happens-if-magnus-does-not-go-to-terra/page/3/#findComment-3308271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Ah. Fair enough. TOD gets weird because of how it messes with the timeline with Magnus' side of events happening around the time of Davin while Terra, Magnus is arriving after Istvaan V. @DarthMarko: both views are right. It is Magnus' fault that he wound up in that situation. His arrogance is what led up to the Razing of Prospero. After the Razing, he was being hunted by the Imperium so then his choices became either join the Traitors or become hunted by everyone. But if it wasn't for his arrogance, he never would have walked the path that led to him being damned. If he had never thought that he had bested Tzeentch, perhaps never even tried or told the Emperor how he saved his Sons, things would turned out drastically different. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271172-what-happens-if-magnus-does-not-go-to-terra/page/3/#findComment-3308315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Let's say that Magnus does indeed get placed on the Golden Throne as is responsible for the webway gate on Terra. Does everyone forget that he is a pawn of Tzeentch? Magnus could have easily been manipulated by Tzeentch to open up the warp to Terra while on the Golden Throne and just devastate the Imperium from its heart. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271172-what-happens-if-magnus-does-not-go-to-terra/page/3/#findComment-3310157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 That would take a lot of convincing as even at this point in the Heresy when he can never go back to the Imperium, he still has just enough loyalty to the Emperor to straddle the fence.. You are also assuming that Magnus would still have conscious thought. He is not the Emperor after all. Not saying its impossible, but it does need certain things to "just go the right way." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271172-what-happens-if-magnus-does-not-go-to-terra/page/3/#findComment-3310196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 That would take a lot of convincing as even at this point in the Heresy when he can never go back to the Imperium, he still has just enough loyalty to the Emperor to straddle the fence.. You are also assuming that Magnus would still have conscious thought. He is not the Emperor after all. Not saying its impossible, but it does need certain things to "just go the right way." No, I am saying that if Magnus had never burned down the portal on Terra by doing his fancy ethereal jaunt through the webway, but instead notified the Emperor through more conventional means. You would have a pawn of Tzneetch, unknown to even the Emperor, responsible for guiding humanity through the webway. And the Emperor "lives" by his own will alone on the throne, his body long dead due to his encounter by Horus. So it isn't that he does not have any free will while on the throne, he just does not have a body to do anything about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271172-what-happens-if-magnus-does-not-go-to-terra/page/3/#findComment-3310288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Yes. My point was that we don't know if Magnus can do the same thing the Emperor can, assuming that the Emperor actually is alive, which in and of itself is a completely different topic. And I also pointed out that even right here and now two years after Istvaan III and even longer after the Razing of Prospero, Magnus is still loyal to the Emperor and for all intents and purposes, he has been a willing pawn, not a controlled pawn. So if he was on the Golden Throne and Magnus did try to convince him to burn down the gate, it would take some convincing as on the Golden Throne, if Magnus was capable of conscious thought, he would know exactly what burning down those runes and wards would mean as he is currently the very thing making sure they work. So as I said, it is possible but it is also one of those possibilities that would need everything to "just go the right way." I wasn't saying it was an impossibility, just an improbability. But then again, rolling 6s is an improbability as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271172-what-happens-if-magnus-does-not-go-to-terra/page/3/#findComment-3310316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 The first rule about making someone a pawn is that you don't tell them they're a pawn. Lets face it, pawns don't exactly have a lot of motivation to wake up in the morning. If, somehow, things had come to pass that Horus had rolled up to Terra and Magnus was still considered loyal (and hadn't busted into Terra), then I don't see how there would have been an issue with sticking him on the Golden Throne. The actions that Magnus took to stop the mutations, try and save Horus, warn the Emperor, and finally to save the last of his sons from the Wolves all make sense for his character. Stick him on the throne (which might not even be necessary if the webway hasn't been broken open) so that the Emperor can go out and punch out Dark Mechanicus Titans and I'm not sure what sort of manipulation could be used on him to get him to do something stupid. At least not one that's remotely believable. Remember that all his screwups in canon involve being stuck in a bad situation and making his own decisions without the input of others. On the throne with the Emperor giving him detailed instructions and both the Emperor and Malcador probably available via psi or vox, and you have a completely different situation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271172-what-happens-if-magnus-does-not-go-to-terra/page/3/#findComment-3310774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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