Unknown Chronicler Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Hello B&C Brothers and Sisters, so having recently decided to draw again after taking two years rest I wanted to reopen my talent back up with 40k (and do keep in mind that I'm only a teenager, so things aren't top notch). So I wanted to post my first picture (Which I flew in rage over since I'm too perfectionist that I nearly ripped it in half) of Cataphractii Terminators in the Iron Warriors livery, cheers! http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8228/8471189363_49087619af.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8231/8471190709_df6a0d484a.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8086/8472288866_f2cd7646ca.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8508/8472290564_f054c11919.jpg So I wondering should I draw more or not? I was unhappy with it, but still wanted to post it anyways for just accomplishment sake. Well cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemid Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Always draw more. Always. You won't like probably 90% of it, but it's extremely important if you want to keep developing your skills that you just keep drawing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rookster Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Keep Drawing. Can they be improved? yes. Are they 100% better then any thing I could ever produce? hell yes! From most artists I know they are never 100% happy with their art, please don't let that stop you. You obviously have great potential and that drawing is proof, do not get frustrated instead ask for advice from the various talented artists we have here on the forum for example Greyall and Brother Melice, I am sure they can give you some tips on improving your drawings of Power Armour. I would like to point out one thing, it is not a critisim! your drawings truely make me think of the old Rogue Trader art, I think its the combination of the darkness of your drawing and the Cataphractii Terminators. Keep up the good work and keep shareing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Chronicler Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 Thanks rookster and Artemid! Just from hearing you guys saying that was actually more motivational then what people say at my school and knowing them they might only say "Yes it is excellent!" only not to hurt my feelings, which in general I would rather have my feelings hurt so I know what to improve upon. But yes now that you say it, it does look somewhat like Rogue Trader stuff I'm already working on another picture since I have a little time each day so I hope to make it good too or somewhat, some normal power armour marines are next and then Eldar (which I will post on my deviant) and more marines, so cheers so far for the comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krieghammer Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 All visual illustration of the 40k universe is welcomed by me! And I think your style is good, hard contrasts! Looking forward to see what you come up with next :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 They look pretty neat. Someone who actually draws will be able to tell you what's off about the guy in picture #2, and even he's OK. The other two are quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Nice stuff, even if there is room for improvement (important note, there's always room for improvement). I like the drastic shading technique you have. It really gives them character :) The one thing that stands out to me as awkard is their proportion. Try using the old comic book drawing method. Measure out the body by heads: for instance, for a super big character, make him as tall as 8 or nine of his heads on top of one another. You can learn proportion this way because shoulders, elbow, hands, waist, knees and other important points land on those intervals. It's tricky once you start incorporating perspective, but practice practice practice. Then, you should practice some, to mix things up. I look forward to seeing more. :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Nice work! I know when I take a break from drawing, the first few times back are a little rough on me. "Why can't I do this like I used to?" followed immediately by "Because you took time off!" My (completely unsolicited) feedback below ================================== I like the bulk of the 1st photo/upper terminator's torso and arms - it makes him look really imposing, and with the amount of detail in all your figures, they look as ornate as I imagine they would. His legs seem a little short (or thin, can't make up my mind) compared to the rest of him, and now that i look at it again, I think it's the lower leg portion that could be lengthened. The second picture - the shoulders are pretty skinny (his left shoulder in particular), and the pose is a little stiff. Straight on is hard, because you wan to show depth without making a confusing mass of lines. Your shading here really helps bring that sense of depth. The third picture - it looks like his left forearm is coming out of his shoulder. I'm assuming he just has it bent behind him some and that his body is blocking the rest of his arm. I'd recommend changing the angle of his arm to something a little more dynamic. The waist on this one, as well as #2, are pretty narrow, especially compared to the first pic. Question: are you more inspired by the artwork in the codexes (I know, not really a word) or by the models themselves? Your lines are clean, and your shading is really great! Again, loving the attention to detail - that really gives character to these guys. ===================================================== tl;dr - promising work, far better than I could do after being away from it for so long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemid Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Also, for my actual feedback, the guys above pretty much said exactly what I was going. Definitely have talent man, keep at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Found an image to illustrate what I was talking about. This was one of the basic templates I started learning from when I was a kid: http://www.blazedent.com/drawingtutorials/tutorial_1_3_1.gif It takes some adaptation for Astartes. For one, to make them look properly epic-sized, extend the measurement form 8 heads to 9. Broadening the figure is important too. But most important (and most annoying) of all, is that Power Armor doesn't really make much anatomical sense. It will ultimately come down to style: Greyall goes with relatively tiny (but anatomically accurate) heads and arms which helps portray that it's a man inside some really big armor. I go with tiny heads and a thicker frame to give them a goliath feel. Some artists manage to actually give them human-ish proportions, but that can be a real pain when dealing with certain poses (especially those damned shoulder guards). Terminator armor of course should be even bulkier in comparison to the anatomy underneath. It's real basic stuff, and you've already got an obviously higher level grasp of drawing, but it's important to return to basics now and then and buttress that foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhart Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I love it, excellent job. As for you not liking it, don't let it get to you. Am a very artistic person. I never like anything I draw, but everyone always loved my stuff. It's because as an artist you will always have that strive for better. Now some criticism, the proportions are too much based on the models. Use them as a guide, and just experiment. Looking forward to more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Why wouldn't you draw more? These are great, well done, man, don't stop now, you won't ever get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqui Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I like them a lot ^_^ I'm not much of an artist, but I can only echo the comments about them having a "Rogue Trader" style. I still love a lot of art work from back then, so yours appeals to me a lot. Like everything in life, practice makes perfect. Don't stop, and remember - don't see something as a failure - see it as an opportunity to learn and improve ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Chronicler Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 Nice work! I know when I take a break from drawing, the first few times back are a little rough on me. "Why can't I do this like I used to?" followed immediately by "Because you took time off!" My (completely unsolicited) feedback below ================================== I like the bulk of the 1st photo/upper terminator's torso and arms - it makes him look really imposing, and with the amount of detail in all your figures, they look as ornate as I imagine they would. His legs seem a little short (or thin, can't make up my mind) compared to the rest of him, and now that i look at it again, I think it's the lower leg portion that could be lengthened. The second picture - the shoulders are pretty skinny (his left shoulder in particular), and the pose is a little stiff. Straight on is hard, because you wan to show depth without making a confusing mass of lines. Your shading here really helps bring that sense of depth. The third picture - it looks like his left forearm is coming out of his shoulder. I'm assuming he just has it bent behind him some and that his body is blocking the rest of his arm. I'd recommend changing the angle of his arm to something a little more dynamic. The waist on this one, as well as #2, are pretty narrow, especially compared to the first pic. Question: are you more inspired by the artwork in the codexes (I know, not really a word) or by the models themselves? Your lines are clean, and your shading is really great! Again, loving the attention to detail - that really gives character to these guys. ===================================================== tl;dr - promising work, far better than I could do after being away from it for so long Actually these are from Cataphratcii models and so the proportions are always hard to get right, and it is true I am unsatisfied with the lower bodies they seem too small for the bigger upper parts. I will try to get started on my next marine today, but thank you everyone for being honest helps alot more then I could say . But yes for now I will be drawing off of models to get the better feel for power armour before moving on to making my own poses and such, cheers! Oh and thank you for the proportions picture Firepower that will be most usefull since I'm still getting back at the hang of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Chronicler Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Well I've been drawing for a few days and it seems the problem is I don't know what to draw or when I do it is the lack of proportions that I am missing (mainly because school is sugar coating and taking so slow to teach things and I'm just too far advanced so they leave me in fundamentals ). So anywhere I can find a place to self teach to draw human bodies since I'm fairly new to it? Because drawing a Mk II helmet and of course the soldiers are the most frustrating pieces to do and I simply wish how you my fellow artists accomplish such a feature, this way I hope to further my knowledge and skills. Well cheers in advance mates, looking forward to some swift answers! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 It's not hard at all to find guide books on drawing anatomy. You'll probably find half a doxen in the drawing section of any Barnes and Noble (or whatever big name bookstore you have in Germany). But bear in mind, Power Armor doesn't make a whole lot of anatomical sense. Short of learning basic proportions and maybe how to draw faces and hands, a lot of the information will only be moderately helpful. I.e., you might learn how to bubble-out a basic outline, but knowing muscles and skeletal details won't be worth much. It won't teach you diddly about drawing armor. Learning those irritating fundamentals will help more with armor than anything else. Trust me, as someone who got bored and coasted through the basics, you'll come to regret it. A lot. So it's worth buying, just don't bother with a real expensive one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Chronicler Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 Ok so my recent drawing, which is a bit better with proportions but I'm going to tweak some things on the next one my progress to artisthood will come and I will appease the gods of art! http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8100/8492605144_452366c4bf.jpg Close up: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8519/8492605734_a60222a02b.jpg What do you guys think of this one? Had a friend help me since he posed for the picture and I basically drew him in power armor from sight alone :P. So cheers! Note: There are a few areas that bother me but I will try not to make them again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 This seems like a good chance to point out an important fundamental skill. Look at his left (viewer's right) arm. It should look as though it's coming towards the viewer, but instead it just looks kinda smooshed. Try this next time. Step 1 is the basic skeleton. A circle at each joint, and the hand is roughly two squares side by side. Next, Step 2 is posed and accounts for perspective with foreshortening- the elbow joint has gotten larger, and the forarm has gotten shorter. A third circle was added to represent where the wrist guard would end, and it is slightly larger than the elbow circle. Simple perspective- things are gonna get bigger the closer they are to the viewer. The degree to which they grow is often a matter of style. The hand comes forward, and then turns down at the fingers. [Edit- Foreshortening is a crucial enough skill to put specific practice into once you get down basics of shapes and anatomy/proportion. An art book is bound to have advice and examples better than what I can provide] Step 3 is 'tubing.' It's the very rough outline of the eventual drawing. Don't put any details into it if it can be avoided. Once you get the hang of things, you can erase the skeleton from step one after you finish this step. Step 4 is where thigns get fleshed out. Erase the guide lines and you're left with a pretty good shape. This is normally a pretty useful skill, but for drawing Space Marines it is invaluable. Normally you would use this as a guideline for drawing anatomy and then wrap the muscles around the shapes, but Astartes armor is basically complete once you finish tubing. You really want to get a hang of drawing cylinders most of all. On that note, take a look at X. A common mistake is to join the straight line and the edge of the circle at a sharp point. In reality, there is no solid intersection point: the line flows smoothly into the circle. So using this, try drawing a bunch of tube-men Astartes. No embellishments, icons, details or anything like that. Just draw men made out of tubes over and over, stopping at a level of detail on par with Step 4. The earlier guide pic should help you with getting the proportions right (though remember that Astartes are broader than a basic human outline). It'll be a bit mind numbing, but it will help a lot in the end. And of course, you should post your practice sketches too for helpful ciriticsms. It's very easy to make the same mistake a thousand times without spotting it yourself, believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Chronicler Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 ok so I did 4 quick sketches to see how to do it, and I know there are problems in them but then again that is why I ask for help, C&C please? Now did them in the following line and each took only 40 minutes and I took breakes and inspected the picture and moved to a new one so i don't do the same mistakes again... Picture1 http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8106/8498568554_bd67eb7f1e.jpg picture 2: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8103/8498567466_101780fd0d.jpg picture 3: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8528/8498566864_e36e58faa5.jpg picture 4: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8237/8497464445_90a685e721.jpg Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 The guy on the left in the second pic is probably the best posed, and the Jump marine pic is a pretty solid use of perspective. I would recommend forgetting all about the shoulder guards for a while. They're really awkward shapes, they don't make much anatomical sense, and they get in the way of poses. Get a solid grasp of the basic shapes and anatomy before bothering with those pains in the butt. Even with professional artwork, including that which you see in codexes and rulebooks, artists tend to cheat from one picture to the other by changing the way those work in order to fit the intended pose. If I were to put practice in order, I would work on space marines without shoudler guards until I was satisfied with appearance, then move on to Scouts for a better understanding of detail, and then full blown decorated, fully armored space marines. The leg armor is not purely cylindrical in shape. They are angled downward where they meet the hip and groin, parallel to the codpiece. This is one of those things you can see clearly enough just by looking at the models. If i find the time later I'll try and draw up a basic guideline static-doll pic, and a few pointers on pose. There are some tricks you would never think about, like how the hips and shoulders shift in angle with movement and balance. Most important of all though, you have to bear in mind that this is not something you are going to learn quickly, even with tutoring. If I counted the number of hours I've spent drawing throughout my life, I'm sure it would be startlingly high, and I'm still just slightly above average. Even the basic tube-man exercise is something you might have to do hundreds of times before you develop a truly solid foundation. It's not a bad thing at all to draw the complicated, finished pictures, but you're likely to improve much more by doing those mind-numbing, boring exercises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwrath Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Progress can certainly be seen in your drawings, and I'd definitely suggest taking notes of firepower's suggestions. Keep it up because you'll get there in the end. Two things I've learned in my quest to become a better artist are to be aware that although looking at cool artwork can give you inspiration, it can also make things harder as you become more frustrated with the apparent skill gap, so just keep that in mind and don't get put off by it. The other thing is to keep practicing with normally proportioned people. Everyday, do a couple of pages of normal people in different poses and a few sketches of different muscle groups then reward yourself by doing a pic of an awesome space marine doing awesome things. Learn the anatomy before you start bending it to your will :) keep it up bud, and keep posting, I'd love to see how you progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemid Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I'd recommend interspersing amongst your practice of drawing Marines traditional drawing practice stuff. I'm talking just doing observational sketching of people, making sure you're really observing and paying attention with your eyes and then working on how those shapes you see are best represented by lines on the page. Additionally, drawing the human skeleton (like one of these guys http://humananatomy.anatomywarehouse.com/CH95_small.jpg) can really help you get your sense of proportion and framing down, as you'll learn the underpinnings for what's connected to what, what goes where, and how things angle and bend when the pose changes. Then you can build off that frame to add muscle, skin, clothing, armor, etc, and it will still feel more correct. Then you get all the fun of adapting to an Astartes skeleton, but it's all the same principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Additionally, drawing the human skeleton (like one of these guys http://humananatomy.anatomywarehouse.com/CH95_small.jpg) can really help you get your sense of proportion and framing down, as you'll learn the underpinnings for what's connected to what, what goes where, and how things angle and bend when the pose changes.This. The best human anatomy drawing books start by teaching how to draw the skeleton, afterwards showing how the muscles are arranged and work, and then teaching how to pose and put it all together. I highly recommend picking up such a book or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Chronicler Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Thank you so far everyone for the help and kind kind words that is all the motivation I need and it keeps me from being frustrated at not doing average level which I know will take awhile to do. I myself am looking at a particular style that I'm drawing with but I'm not sure what you sometimes mean when you refer to poses and such that is where visual aid would help. But I will keep on going and study the certain pieces that space marines have the most difficulty doesn't necessarily lie in the legs but in the torso which I'm having a hard time to grasp how to do and how big it SHOULD be. But cheers mates you guys are the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 The chest piece is actually just a very large rib cage, in terms of making a basic skeletal framework. I'll try and draw up an example tomorrow if I can find the time. I also have several books lying about that I can suggest, assuming you can find copies where you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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