Sanguinor Viable in 6th?

[BorisBC]

So, I've been thinking, is Mr Sanguinor viable in 6th now? Sure, assault took, a big nerf, but with his nifty trick against enemy HQ's gaining an easier Slay the Warlord, I've been thinking he might be worth a run. The plan is to run him in his battle limo, Stormraven, with Mr Furioso as a bodyguard. He can use Skies of Blood to drop at the right spot, and 2+\3++ and EW is pretty handy.

 

I guess I like him over Mephy as he doesn't need to roll to make things work, like Wings or Shield.

 

Anyone tried running him again in 6th?

[Xenith]

Skies of blood is getting you a T4 charge on average, T3 at best, if your target is within ~30" of your table edge.

 

Probably better to start him on table where you can make most use of the Aura.

 

He's ok, but the character killer nature is let down by the fact he is only AP3. 6th also makes it harder (for the single model unit) to get into B2B with an enemy character.

 

Dante's rules are probably better for Slay the Warlord (free wound from them, and if they're a librarian, you drop them to 1 wound, and the opponent is then too fearful to use their powers - great for fighting BA and DA)

 

Sang probably works best as a lone hunter in a multiple threat list. Send him after the opponents back field.

[Jolemai]

True, but he can still challenge. Just send him in supported.

 

No?

[John Rainbow]

Frankly, no. He's too expensive and dies to torrent fire to easily. He has some nifty rules but is way overpriced. A libby or chappy is much better in general.

[Xenith]

True, but he can still challenge. Just send him in supported.

 

No?

He murders in challenge, and is strong vs high strenght attacks, but is weaker vs lots of weak attacks.

 

A decent opponent refuses the challenge, lets him kill 2-3 grunts, who then punch him in his shiny face. Ish.

[company veteran]

i have played him a few times... he is good but can be difficult for him to justify his points cost... his sergeant buff is a lot better now due to challenges and keeping him near some DC or a RAS gives them all +1 attack  is nice.

[Sokhar]

Typical GW nonsense.

 

Give the guy with 2+/3+ and Eternal Warrior and AP 3 sword so he can't actually kill the scary characters he's meant to hunt.

 

Give the guy with 2+/4+, T4 and NO Eternal Warrior an axe so he either gets pasted before swinging, or simultaneously by a power fist.

[Drunken Angel]

I am running him this weekend as a fun unit at 1850 using an Axe encarmine ( I dont wanna hear any bullpucky about the axe over the glaive its my model and I model how I like under the FAQ) Any crap and I wont post a report. 

I think he is a waste of points sure he buffs a Sgt and hands out 7-10 maybe even 20 extra attacks but so would another squad of RAS.  I am finding that in games where I load up on shooting units I seldom have to get my close combat guys out to win.  In games where I load up on CC models or seek combat I end up slogging out a draw if I am lucky.

Its more and more a case of sixth ed sit back castle and roll dice for the guy with the better shooting or rolls well for objectives wins.   The Sanguinor is like my Death Company I will play them even though its not always the best idea.  I am hoping to encounter a squad of terminators or something similar with the axe he hits at strength 7 on the charge and all his attacks ignore armour.  Still I am risking a 275 pt model to tie up 220 pts of something else, thats not optimal.  Against large units he goes down easily to weight of attacks and he gets shot to bits if you can't roll the combats on your opponents turn.  Why am I taking him ? I want one model that can intervene when my RAS are threatened with a CC monster.  Thats his fluff and thats why I take him  

[BorisBC]

Frankly, no. He's too expensive and dies to torrent fire to easily. He has some nifty rules but is way overpriced. A libby or chappy is much better in general.

See that's why I was taking him, I normally play it safe and take a Libby and some Sang Priests, who do a bit, but not much. So I figured this time I might take a monster, but one slightly less scary than Mephy.

[SamaNagol]

Seeing as every tournament I have been to have refused to allow me to use his Glaive as an Axe, he's a waste of 275pts. Only 3 Wounds just isnt enough. Especially against things like poisoned gaunts or Flamers

[Jolemai]

Seeing as every tournament I have been to have refused to allow me to use his Glaive as an Axe, he's a waste of 275pts. Only 3 Wounds just isnt enough. Especially against things like poisoned gaunts or Flamers

 

Just out of interest, what reason do they usually give for this?

[John Rainbow]

I am running him this weekend as a fun unit at 1850 using an Axe encarmine ( I dont wanna hear any bullpucky about the axe over the glaive its my model and I model how I like under the FAQ) Any crap and I wont post a report.

 

Blackmail to get what you want when you know it's most likely wrong. Classy move...

 

FYI most tournaments have ruled that you can't do this as the official model comes with a sword.

[Jolemai]

The official Sanguinary Guard models only come with Sword and Axe. Do you feel they would rule against the Maul and Lance versions on those models?

[tomjoad]

The official Sanguinary Guard models only come with Sword and Axe. Do you feel they would rule against the Maul and Lance versions on those models?

 

The FAQ is clear that a Glaive Encarmine is either an Axe or Sword, always two handed and always master crafted. As long as a Sanguinor is modeled with an axe I can't see a reasonable person ruling that it must be a sword anyway. Until it's be FAQ'd (like Grimnar's Axe Morkai has been) it should be WYSIWYG.

[Drunken Angel]

I am running him this weekend as a fun unit at 1850 using an Axe encarmine ( I dont wanna hear any bullpucky about the axe over the glaive its my model and I model how I like under the FAQ) Any crap and I wont post a report.

Blackmail to get what you want when you know it's most likely wrong. Classy move...

FYI most tournaments have ruled that you can't do this as the official model comes with a sword.

No I dont know the Axe encarmine is wrong I think the Axe is a good idea and am playing him with one and no one will ever know how he went now either. Which is fine for all of us as it looks like none of you fine people want to or even can use him with an axe

[Jolemai]

 

The

official Sanguinary Guard models only come with Sword and Axe. Do you

feel they would rule against the Maul and Lance versions on those

models?

 

The FAQ is clear that a Glaive

Encarmine is either an Axe or Sword, always two handed and always master

crafted. As long as a Sanguinor is modeled with an axe I can't see a

reasonable person ruling that it must be a sword anyway. Until it's be

FAQ'd (like Grimnar's Axe Morkai has been) it should be WYSIWYG.

 

The other interpretation is that they were just examples.

[knife&fork]

I think the Axe is a good idea and am playing him with one and no one will ever know how he went now either. Which is fine for all of us as it looks like none of you fine people want to or even can use him with an axe

Don't be 'that guy'...

POWER WEAPONS

A power weapon is sheathed in the lethal haze of a disruptive energy field that eats

through armour, flesh and bone with ease.

Types of Power Weapons

Power weapons come in all shapes and sizes, but for the purposes of

our game, we have four simple categories of power weapons: power

axes, power mauls,power swords and power lances. If a model's war

gear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules,

look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has:

if it's a sword or dagger, it's a power sword; if it's an axe or halberd,

it's a power axe; if it's a blunt weapon like a mace or staff, it's a

power maul; if it's a spear or lance, it's a power lance.

-6th edition rule book page 61.

Now take a look at the Sanguinor model and tell me what kind of power weapon subclass he is holding? Effectively changing the wargear of a special character isn't ok, it's cheating.

We can do anything with the consent of our opponent of course, but that's not the point.

[Venemox]

I think the Axe is a good idea and am playing him with one and no one will ever know how he went now either. Which is fine for all of us as it looks like none of you fine people want to or even can use him with an axe

Don't be 'that guy'...

POWER WEAPONS

A power weapon is sheathed in the lethal haze of a disruptive energy field that eats

through armour, flesh and bone with ease.

Types of Power Weapons

Power weapons come in all shapes and sizes, but for the purposes of

our game, we have four simple categories of power weapons: power

axes, power mauls,power swords and power lances. If a model's war

gear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules,

look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has:

if it's a sword or dagger, it's a power sword; if it's an axe or halberd,

it's a power axe; if it's a blunt weapon like a mace or staff, it's a

power maul; if it's a spear or lance, it's a power lance.

-6th edition rule book page 61.

Now take a look at the Sanguinor model and tell me what kind of power weapon subclass he is holding? Effectively changing the wargear of a special character isn't ok, it's cheating.

We can do anything with the consent of our opponent of course, but that's not the point.

Yes, 'look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has:', not the GW website, store, or pictures in a codex or magazine. The model. Which model? The one, on the table, right in front of you, that you have a question about. The flexibility to model things differently, and have them have game effects, is built into the core rulebook.

[knife&fork]

Yes, 'look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has:', not the GW website, store, or pictures in a codex or magazine.  The model.  Which model?  The one, on the table, right in front of you, that you have a question about.  The flexibility to model things differently, and have them have game effects, is built into the core rulebook.

 

Seriously? Try applying the same thinking to things like base size and you'll see how unsustainable this line of thought is....

[Drunken Angel]

I think the Axe is a good idea and am playing him with one and no one will ever know how he went now either. Which is fine for all of us as it looks like none of you fine people want to or even can use him with an axe

Don't be 'that guy'...

Who is "that guy"? I can define him I will tell you who he is he is that guy that takes a stormraven instead of the Sanguinor and shoots all over the board 17-20 times a turn with a Librarian casting shield in the middle of two other Ravens ? give me a break. "That guy" would be taking the raven. The Sanguinor is not optimal with or without an Axe. You sound ridiculous.

Seems I am the only guy here actually using him in both AP2 and AP3 forms what was the original poster asking ? and here you all are quibbling about something thats been FAQed and accepted, at least where I am and what you think where you are doesnt matter one bit.

[knife&fork]

The FAQ tells us to look at the rulebook. In the case of sanguinary guard there is some ambiguity. 

The Sanguinor however is not a generic model like Sanguinary guard that have multiple options. The model has also been out since the codex hit, so there shouldn't be any confusion. 

 

The official model has a sword, don't put an axe on him and expect people to go along with it. 

[Bloodsurfer]

Additionally I wouldn't count on being able to use Skies of Blood anymore. (nods to FAQ)

[SamaNagol]

It's just bad FAQing that's all.

 

Technically no Marine models come with a Lance so giving them a Lance would be contentious. Not as contentious as modelling your own Special Character and changing their Power Weapon type, even though it isn't specified in the Codex.

 

Realistically, it would take 10 minutes to FAQ/Errata every Special character in the game next time they release a set of FAQs and specify exactly what type of weapon they have.

 

I brought the Glaive Encarmine question up to Matt Ward at Games Day last year and asked that 'as we are allowed to model our own versions of SCs and use them Counts As, if I modelled my own Sanguinor for my Flesh Tearers and he had a Glaive Axe.... could I use it as a Power Axe type?' He actually said yes he doesn't see why not.

 

But that is irrelevant if your tournament operator or friendly opponent doesn't agree.

 

So before you plan your tactics around Sanguinor with AP2 I would definitely check with your TO or friendly opponent.

 

This thread has also reminded me how ridiculous it is that Khran can swing a PRIMARCH SIZED Axe around at initiative, when it should be the definition of 'Unwieldly'.

[Drunken Angel]

I can tell you several things after the tourney

 

An axe encarmine is acceptable and people actually commented on me taking such a nerfed model there were no problems with opponents or the TO

I had very good games against excellent opponents who played well

I scored the maximum possible for sportmanship

I finished 5th out of 40 players there was .13 of a point out of a total of 200 seperating me from 4th

I was the top Blood Angel player

I came behind a necron flyer wraith list, a chaos/demons flamer screamer list, a GK list  and another flamer screamer list.

 

How did the Sanguinor do ? bit pointless telling all you experts anything isn't it?

[John Rainbow]

I just wanted to state my issues with some of the comments here, while the rules regarding the Glaive Encarmaine options are somewhat couter-intuitive and downright dumb, they are debatable. In particular many tournies have ruled these things a certain way and as such, we need to discuss those rulings here. Hence coments to the tune of 'I'm doing it this way, don't tell me otherwise or [insert threat] will happen' or 'don't try to tell me it's done another way, I won't listen' aren't at all helpful in creating a dialogue about these issues.

 

Try and keep it civil and try to be open to other ideas and what is actually game legal in this case - I think the GW ruling about 'look at the model to see what it has' is pretty clear in this case, even if it is somewhat silly.