Assault Marines... Without Jump packs?

[Brother Darklight]

Greetings gents,

 

I was glancing through the Fast Attack options the other day and noticed the new Assault Marines can optionally remove their jump packs, effectively making 18 Point Close Combat Tacs that can't capture objectives (Except scouring).

 

I found this to be rather interesting. Can anyone fathom a plausible use for such units in this book?

 

 

[PensacolaWarhammer]

There's a couple of benefits that I can see. Without the jump packs, the squad can now get into a transport. This helps to increase their survivablity some meaning that there will be more attacks going into a unit that you charge into. This does take some planning since you won't be able to assault the turn you get out of most vehicles. In the Dark Angels codex, the assault squad without jump packs can get a Rhino or Drop Pod for free. In the Blood Angels codex, an assault squad without jump packs get any Dedicated Transport at 35 point discount.

[FerociousBeast]

If you want to deep strike your assault marines, the drop pod is a much more reliable delivery mechanism than the jump packs. Plus, when they disembark, they don't have to choose between shooting and staying clumped up or spreading out w/out shooting. I don't see the benefit to the Rhino, though.

[the jeske]

meh. for same points you can get GH as ally. with 2 plasma instead of flamers,  ultra grit and counter attack.

[Brother Darklight]

The lack of assaulting out of the transports/pods is what makes me ponder their use, though.  You basically waste a turn getting into the assault, and in that time a LOT can happen. 

[PensacolaWarhammer]

@Brother Darklight

 

I agree that there's an art to disembarking, and that a lot can happen in a single turn. When it comes to cost, it's nothing to snup your nose at being able to take a transport for free. One way you might be able to make a use of this is to not play the assault marines as a forward aggressive unit. Keep them back to support a Devastator squad or watch an objective in your deployment zone. Let some other squad use their free transport, or if you took a drop pod, use it to help bring more drop pods down on your first turn with the Drop Pod Assault.

[Brother Darklight]

@Brother Darklight

 

I agree that there's an art to disembarking, and that a lot can happen in a single turn. When it comes to cost, it's nothing to snup your nose at being able to take a transport for free. One way you might be able to make a use of this is to not play the assault marines as a forward aggressive unit. Keep them back to support a Devastator squad or watch an objective in your deployment zone. Let some other squad use their free transport, or if you took a drop pod, use it to help bring more drop pods down on your first turn with the Drop Pod Assault.

 

Hmm. I suppose this is true... 

[notmattlythgoe]

It also lets you take assault marines in games that don't allow jump packs, like Zone Mortalis.

[Brother Immolator]

If you want to deep strike your assault marines, the drop pod is a much more reliable delivery mechanism than the jump packs. Plus, when they disembark, they don't have to choose between shooting and staying clumped up or spreading out w/out shooting. I don't see the benefit to the Rhino, though.

I cant understand that one. What else can they do? Its either stay there or shoot, you cant assault even from a drop pod.

Or I missed the point entirely? Sorry I just dont get it

It also lets you take assault marines in games that don't allow jump packs, like Zone Mortalis.

Is that a GW ruleset?

[notmattlythgoe]

Nah, it's a FW ruleset.

[cypherthefallenangel]

personally I won't take the DA assault marines. There are waaay better fast attack choises. If you really want them take an ally. Blood angels do it better, they are scoring, and have fast tanks. since the nerf to descent of angels lists with the inception of 6th ed. the only way I even take assault marines is mechanized infantry.

[FerociousBeast]

Immolator - When disembarking from a drop pod, you don't have to clump your guys up in the "Deep Strike Group Hug of 'Oh No! Plasma Cannon!' Doom."

 

Agreed that there's not a whole lot of reason to field assault marines in this codex, but if you want them for thematic reasons or whatever, the drop pod isn't a bad choice.

[Master Avoghai]

 

I cant understand that one. What else can they do? Its either stay there or shoot, you cant assault even from a drop pod.

Or I missed the point entirely? Sorry I just dont get it

You can run instead of shooting, that way, your squad maybe more spaced in case of ordnance/plasma shoot.

I cant understand that one. What else can they do? Its either stay there or shoot, you cant assault even from a drop pod.

Or I missed the point entirely? Sorry I just dont get it

 

More generally, the issue of not being able to charge is not proper to assault marines. Same thing for DWK, same thing for a tactical in rhino etc.

 

Fact is when you DS them at turn 2 or 3 some of the menaces has been destroyed. Hence it acts for their survivability

[aekold]

Consider this: For 105 points you have a squad in a droppod with 2 flamers and a combiflamer. I am contemplating a force with 3 droppods, 2 of which will contain assault squads with flamers and a techmarine with combimelta. The third pot wil contain a venerable dread with multimelta and heavy flamer. This combined with deathwing assault gives you the option of engaging up to 6 targets in turn 1. The deathwing will engage 2 targets due to splitfire, the assault squads wil each engage 2 targets due to the techmarines splitting of. First the techmarines open up transports with their melta's. Then the assault squads will flame the passengers.

 

Further options are giving the techmarines a servoharness, giving them a twin linked plasma shot, also for opening up transports, or use the flamer to add more hits to the hits generated by the assault squad.

 

Other things to consider are the face that the sergeant of the assault squad can exchange both hier bolt pistol and chainsword for a combiweapon, meaning that you can give him an combiflamer and combimelta, giving you more flexibility. Same goes for the techmarine, because since the FAQ he has bolt a bolter and bolt pistol.

 

I thing that assault squads are worth it, when used in the right list.

[Centurio]

I used one drop pod with 5 assault marines and 2 flamers in a list with Deathwing and Ravenwing.  The assault marines killed a decent number of termigants, but more importantly they stalled the enemy advance in that area which let me get my other units into position.  I won the game and I credit it in part due to the assault marines in the drop pod.

[Upstartes]

I have been contemplating the possibility of sending Azrael down in a drop pod with some kind of choppy unit. While there are better choices than an assault squad, there aren't cheaper ones. Azy's 4++ save will also help them survive the drop turn to hopefully do some chopping on the following round - or even just cause my opponent to go "oh, crap!" and spend a lot of energy and attention focused on all the sword-wielding guys in his backfield. If you bring down some DWA termies with the pod, then there are lots of targets for the enemy to choose from, and the assault squad might be the least of his worries - allowing them to survive.

 

I'm not saying this is a good idea. It's just an idea. 

[Tamwulf]

There is nothing an Assault Squad without Jump Packs can do that the same size troop squad can do for cheaper points. The troop squad is a scoring unit as well. Last nail in the coffin for these guys: There are far better fast attack choices in the DA Codex.

 

In other armies, the Assault Squad is a great choice to take. For example, Blood Angels. The Assault Squad is a troops choice in that army, and when you take away the jump packs and give them a Razorback, it's actually cheaper then a similarly equipped troop squad. This assault squad is also good in close combat, and can be buffed by the Red Thirst and characters to be great in close combat. This option for the DA is probably just a hold over from all the other PA codex books out there. The DA just don't use assault squads for assault or for speed. There better units for both (Deathwing and Ravenwing).

[Onisuzume]

There's a couple of benefits that I can see. Without the jump packs, the squad can now get into a transport.

Erm... just FYI, Jump Infantry is Bulky, so they can still ride on transports, just not as many of them per transport.

So yeah, we could have a squad of 8 Assault Marines with Jump Packs riding in a LRC.

Probably not the best choice, but possible nonetheless.

[Syphid]

 

There's a couple of benefits that I can see. Without the jump packs, the squad can now get into a transport.

Erm... just FYI, Jump Infantry is Bulky, so they can still ride on transports, just not as many of them per transport.

So yeah, we could have a squad of 8 Assault Marines with Jump Packs riding in a LRC.

Probably not the best choice, but possible nonetheless.

 

10 Assault Marines in a Storm Eagle?  :p

 

I have a 10 man Assault Squad that I used to drive around in a rhino but now I'm trying to figure out how to use them or if I should just buy a set of jump packs for them.

[Kem]

 

There's a couple of benefits that I can see. Without the jump packs, the squad can now get into a transport.

Erm... just FYI, Jump Infantry is Bulky, so they can still ride on transports, just not as many of them per transport.

So yeah, we could have a squad of 8 Assault Marines with Jump Packs riding in a LRC.

Probably not the best choice, but possible nonetheless.

That is not correct. In general, only infantry can ride a trasport.

[Izzuan]

The Assault marines are base type Infantry, Subtype Jump. They COULD ride in a rhino with the packs...just cant buy it for them as dedicated without dropping the packs. The packs give them the extra rules "Bulky and deepstrike".

 

only reason you cant load termies (also bulky) in other transports is because it specifically says that they cannot be transported by them.

[Cypher 102]

Only infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise.

[Onisuzume]

 

 

There's a couple of benefits that I can see. Without the jump packs, the squad can now get into a transport.

Erm... just FYI, Jump Infantry is Bulky, so they can still ride on transports, just not as many of them per transport.

So yeah, we could have a squad of 8 Assault Marines with Jump Packs riding in a LRC.

Probably not the best choice, but possible nonetheless.

 

That is not correct. In general, only infantry can ride a trasport.

Eh, I stand corrected.

Then again, it wouldn't be the first time something like that changed between editions.

[Izzuan]

 

 

Only infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise.

I stand corrected! Curse me and my mis mreading if the rules!

 

Thanks for straightening me out!

[PensacolaWarhammer]

Great disscussion.

I've spent the weekend looking at what I could do with an Assault Squad int he Dark Angels codex. Honestly, I don't see how some people say this is a great unit, not saying anyone on this thrread said that. First, they're assault marines, which let us be honest, are not great for assaulting. As everyone here has done great at pointing out, if you want assault marines you get a better choice in the Blood Angels codex, or there are better options in the Dark Angels codex.

 

There have been some good stratigies given for using assault marines with or without jump packs in this thread that I may one day try just for the hell of it.