Vanilla Stormravens - strategies & tactics

[infornography]

I do so love my magnets. ;-)

[PaganLinuxGeek]

Yeah they are awesome. When you run out let me know I sell em cheap on ebay.

[Disruptor_fe404]

I've always used lascannon and multi-melta on my Ravens.

 

It's too bad you can't fire all four Stormstrikes at once though. I miss having the potential to pop a Nemesis Dreadknight or a Trygon in one turn.

[Giga]

I'm still debating on whether to use an assault cannon or a tl-lascannon. I'm definitely going to be adding hurricane bolters to my raven whenever I can spare the points.

 

Problem with assault cannons is that I have never, in my life, seen them do well. Theoretically, they should be able to, but I never see them do good. A turreted TL-lascannon on the other hand, with skyfire, can totally wreck someone's day as it can basically shoot fliers from across the table.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah that's the exact problem I have with assault cannons. I find they are only any good for me for shooting infantry, and when they are heavy infantry, I find them decidedly lacklustre. I get the best uses out of it when I fire the assault cannon with other weapons like my Dread with autocannon/assault cannon (fist full of dice)

 

That's why I'm taking Hurricane bolters with my Stormraven, to bulk out the dice I'm firing,

[Azash]

For me assault cannons have always worked great for me against infantry, marginal against vehicles, and dreadful against the 2+ crowd (termies etc). Although on what to take on the Storm Raven the deciding factor was the Storm Talon.

 

Due to the escort rule I plan on fielding them as a matched pair and the only way I can reason out to make a Talon viable is to pair it with a Raven. Since the Storm Talon comes with a twin linked assault cannon (also it's TL BS 5 for most targets) I already have one in my list. Also the Talon's TL AC has a 360 degree firing arc so it has an easier time getting rear armor shots than the SR's which has a narrower firing arc (that odd little intake that sits behind the turret). So that meant as a whole my list had a hole in it I was short on heavy weaponry. Two choices pay 30 pts and put it on the Talon this costs me the chance to have Skyhammers and the talon doesn't have the TL LC turret mounted or PotMS. Then there is option two for 0 pts put it on the turret mounted Storm Raven with PotMS which then allows me the 15 pt upgrade to Skyhammers on the Talon.

 

Once I made up my mind to run the two models in tandem the decision really made itself.

[UltraTacSgt]

I used a Stormraven for the first time in a few games today and I can now give a nod to the Stormraven with TL-AC, TL-MM, and Hurricane Bolters. My meta isn't very flier heavy, and most people who do field fliers bring maybe 1 or 2, so the spam factor isn't an issue for me. That said, I found myself shooting more often at ground targets. I was pretty undecided about the LC vs the AC as I, like many of you, am pretty doubtful of the AC's ability to deliver the rends/glances/pens that I would like to see against armor. When it comes down to it, I think the Stormstrikes and TL-MM are enough dedicated anti armor to cover the bases against AV's greater than 12. I don't expect much from the AC so when it did deliver a glance/pen it was icing on the MM/Stormstrike cake. Against ground armor I found it pretty easy to get into melta range and into a lower AV facing. Against most fliers (AV11) the 5+ damage from 3-4 AC hits is good enough. A few fliers even have AV10 rear armor which 12 hurricane bolter shots have a good chance of glancing.

 The Hurricane Bolters are pretty much an auto take for me now, I never failed to get rapid fire range for them. When it came to infantry, the HB's and the AC both served the simple purpose of putting a lot of wounds on a single unit. I shot them at Terminators more often than not and it was more effective for me to bring them down by making my opponent roll 12 armor saves before making him roll the invulns from the MM/Stormstrike.

 PoTMS was pretty awesome too. One turn I zoomed onto the table, and PoTMS'd the MM into the rear armor of an Ironclad to blow it up before putting like 8-10 wounds on another unit.

 The Stormraven+Stormtalon escort will probably be a nasty combo. For my list though, the 230pt loaded Stormraven has definitely earned itself a spot.

[Brother Casman]

I ran the stormraven in a tournament over the weekend: stock + hurricane bolters, loaded with a tactical squad, chaplain and assault cannon dreadnought; with a skyhammer stormtalon escort (actually two, but the other was just normal reserves). My plan for the whole group was to roll on and clear an objective, then next turn drop off the embarked units, while the stormtalon(s) flew interference. In the first two rounds, that's exactly how it played out - I busted up a lot of transports and killed a lot of troops with all three fliers. The third round got cut short, but was heading that way as well.

 

I only played one round against an ADL, which I thought was rather odd. I imagine that my other two opponents will be considering some Skyfire for the next time.

 

I also didn't play any games against enemy fliers, but I only saw an Ork bommer and another Stormtalon, so there wasn't anything I considered threatening. Not a lot of fliers at all, excluding me.

[skeletoro]

Assuming you're in range, an asscan will generally remove more hull points than a las cannon against most AV values.

 

Eg

vs AV 10(assuming all shots hit) Asscan glance/pen 3/6 of the time * 4 = 12/6. Las cannon glance or pen 6/6.

AV 11 asscan glance/pen 2/6 * 4=8/6. Las cannon 5/6.

Av 12 Asscan Pen 1/6 of the time *4 =4/6. Las cannon glance or pen 4/6 of the time.

AV13 AC 1/6 *4 = 4/6. LC 3/6.

AC14 AC 2/18*4 = 8/18. LC 6/18.

 

Doesnt take into account damage table results/ap2, but still... Assault cannons are perfectly serviceable anti armour weapons.

[Excubitor]

One things been bothering me with all this AP2 stuff...Aren't Assault Cannons AP2 when they Rend anyway? So vs 12-14, they have the same AP as a Lascannon?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

One things been bothering me with all this AP2 stuff...Aren't Assault Cannons AP2 when they Rend anyway? So vs 12-14, they have the same AP as a Lascannon?

 

Nope.  If you read the rule for Rending, you'll see that specifies that rolls to wound that Rend count as AP2.  You don't roll to wound against an AV.

[Excubitor]

Ah, ok. Thanks for clearing that up

[Captain Idaho]

Assuming you're in range, an asscan will generally remove more hull points than a las cannon against most AV values.

Eg

vs AV 10(assuming all shots hit) Asscan glance/pen 3/6 of the time * 4 = 12/6. Las cannon glance or pen 6/6.

AV 11 asscan glance/pen 2/6 * 4=8/6. Las cannon 5/6.

Av 12 Asscan Pen 1/6 of the time *4 =4/6. Las cannon glance or pen 4/6 of the time.

AV13 AC 1/6 *4 = 4/6. LC 3/6.

AC14 AC 2/18*4 = 8/18. LC 6/18.

Doesnt take into account damage table results/ap2, but still... Assault cannons are perfectly serviceable anti armour weapons.

The problem with assault cannons taking off hull points as a strategic choice is you generally won't destroy your targets until later in the game. Such lack of decisive weapons means you won't be reducing the enemy in numbers, which for Marines means longer for the opponent's numbers advantage to take it's toll on you.

 

Space Marines need some decisive strikes to do well, hence why Land Raiders and drop pods are so good, and our fliers are generally the same.

[WarriorFish]

I agree with Idaho, the Assault Cannon is more of a flexible supporting weapon that always helps against your chosen target but is pipped to the post by the specialist weaponry. That's not to say it's bad of course as it's a brilliant jack of all trades weapon which makes it a good addition to any platform - just that if you're hunting tanks you'll need some AT guns to do the main lifting.

[Giga]

skeletoro, on 17 Mar 2013 - 01:32, said:

Assuming you're in range, an asscan will generally remove more hull points than a las cannon against most AV values.

 

Eg

vs AV 10(assuming all shots hit) Asscan glance/pen 3/6 of the time * 4 = 12/6. Las cannon glance or pen 6/6.

AV 11 asscan glance/pen 2/6 * 4=8/6. Las cannon 5/6.

Av 12 Asscan Pen 1/6 of the time *4 =4/6. Las cannon glance or pen 4/6 of the time.

AV13 AC 1/6 *4 = 4/6. LC 3/6.

AC14 AC 2/18*4 = 8/18. LC 6/18.

 

Doesnt take into account damage table results/ap2, but still... Assault cannons are perfectly serviceable anti armour weapons.

In theory, ass cannons are awesome.

 

In practice, I've never ever seen one do anything useful.

 

A lascannon with power of the machine spirit, on the other hand, is gonna be harming AV12 fliers with them basically being unable to stay out of its range or los.Also, instant death. :]

[Azash]

In theory, ass cannons are awesome.

In practice, I've never ever seen one do anything useful.

A lascannon with power of the machine spirit, on the other hand, is gonna be harming AV12 fliers with them basically being unable to stay out of its range or los.Also, instant death. :]

Though the intimidation factor of fielding ass cannons during a game can't be matched

Sorry I couldn't resist that one.

[yasarkasaba]

I ordered one from GW yesterday and started to wait cause shipment to Turkey will probably take a week. But i have doubts about how useful is that toy especially in 1500pts. I plan to use 230pts loaded version with a stormhammer escort so it will cost me 350pts which is around 1/4 of my army. If i decide to transport sth with Raven the percentage will dramatically rise. But of course it is a beautiful death star and it deserves that 230pts. I think mostly i will use that one in 1750pts-1850pts.

 

What do you guys think? Is there a efficient way to use this beauty in a 1500pts list?

[tvih]

Why wouldn't there be? People use 3 170-200 point flyers in 1500-1850 lists all the time. The only time it normally becomes a problem is if the enemy manages to get the warlord trait that gives you -1 to reserve rolls.

 

Personally I don't plan on more than one Stormraven, but that's mostly due to having two Stormtalons also, and not being a fan of the Stormraven model. Plus as a personal preference I want to field armor too, not just damned flyers.

[Metal Apostle]

I know this is a bit of a late reply but just had several games playtesting this past fortnight before I assembled mine. At 1K points this thing is vicious!

 

Right now i'm using it mainly as a gunship to take out vehicles and elite/heavy infantry. I've been opting more for reliability more than anything so LC and MM for me. The Hurricanes I think are a must take also... The speed at which this thing travels at means you should ALWAYS be able to get into a good position to rapid fire, and if the main target is a tank PotMS lets you gun down that nearby juicy infantry unit.

 

Another thing I do whilst doing this is to house a small 5 man unit inside to grab that isolated objective. Currently using just a combat squad with a PS sgt, but next game i'll be trying a sniper scout drop early game to synergize on their Move Through Cover, hopefully somewhere high up and hard to reach. As a White Scars man my base units are expensive enough, I wouldn't want to risk putting anything more than 100-150 points into it in case of horrible accidents!

[Koremu]

Quick Q: I've been away from the hobby for some months, so these changes are all new to me.

 

Can Vanguard use Heroic Intervention to assault when jumping out of a Stormraven without it slowing down?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Quick Q: I've been away from the hobby for some months, so these changes are all new to me.

 

Can Vanguard use Heroic Intervention to assault when jumping out of a Stormraven without it slowing down?

 

I don't have the dex in front me, but I'm fairly certain that HI only applies when arriving from Deep Strike.

[DarkGuard]

Indeed, HI is only from Deep Strike, Skies of Blood (or Wrath or whatever it's called) is deployment which uses scatter, not Deep Strike.

[Koremu]

I'm home and looking at the BA Codex here, and it says "deploy the squad as if it were Deep Striking"

[DarkGuard]

But that's different to Deep Striking, it's deployment from a vehicle. You could head over to OR and do search though, see if it's been brought up at all recently.

[Disruptor_fe404]

So wait, locator beacons on Stormravens don't benefit the units inside the Stormraven when they Skies of Blood/Wrath out?