hackziden Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 There is anothe option, i read a post on dakkadakka (i think) that i wont post because its effort on an ipod, where there was a blood angel player who used vanilka marines as allies but they were in BA colours. Why not use this as a SM allie plan, painted as SW? I am planning to now ;p In fact, has anyone got any ideas on how i could make my allies obviously not SW, but still SW if you get my meaning? I thought it was a good idea, so enjoy :) Hackziden Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Thanks Dswanick. Much appreciated. I think part of the issue with flyers for most Wolves is not Fluff. It's that GW being GW is forcing you to shell out more coin to stay potentially competitive. Do we require flyers or special air defence? No, I don't think so because we are a midfield army wit S4 weapons & most flyers are A:10. Even snapshooting, 2 packs of Hunters can usually bring down a flyer(Either that or I'm unusually lucky against flyers--just don't ask me make TDA saves). To have a flyer for Wolves, we have to ally & basically start another small army versus most other marins simply having to buy another single unit. Personally, that''s fine because I'm lucky enough to have a group that's all right with Forge World & I don't mind starting another small army( My Wolf's Dragoons are still in training but they are coming along...sloooowly!!LOL!) but it's not for everyone. Let's face it. It's another $150.00 bucks ball park minimum for most players. WE waited 9 yrs for a new codex, any bets on how long we wait for Flakk missiles?!?!? LOL!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Thanks Dswanick. You're welcome.Do we require flyers or special air defence? No, I don't think so because we are a midfield army wit S4 weapons & most flyers are A:10. Even snapshooting, 2 packs of Hunters can usually bring down a flyer(Either that or I'm unusually lucky against flyers--just don't ask me make TDA saves). Yeah, you're unusually lucky. To bring down a 3HP, AV10 Flyer using Bolters takes 54 Bolters in Rapid-fire range (36 for 2HPs). Congrats. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 If you REALLY want to use a space marine flier wid your wolves, why not take Blood Angels as allies? 2) they are cool fluff wise Hackziden I had to take pause when reading this to resist the urge to hurl. There is anothe option, i read a post on dakkadakka (i think) that i wont post because its effort on an ipod, where there was a blood angel player who used vanilka marines as allies but they were in BA colours. Why not use this as a SM allie plan, painted as SW? I am planning to now ;p In fact, has anyone got any ideas on how i could make my allies obviously not SW, but still SW if you get my meaning? I thought it was a good idea, so enjoy Hackziden This is done quite often. One of the more popular (for SW) is to take BA DC squads and paint them up as 13th Co. or pre-heresy SW then claim them to have advanced MotW as speculated with the 13th. I, for one, like the BA codex, but hate the BA fluff, so I took them as allies and made a DIY that is less blood-centric. Gave me access to flyers, good assault units that aren't in diapers, and dreadnoughts that don't soak up my elite slots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackziden Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I think i might do this with mine: Give my SW snow bases and my allied wolves sand bases...simple distinguishing that can still use SW models only :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactire Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 As long as we dont get some stupid "wolf" flyer like the new DA flying tomb, i hate the way GW come up with stupid fluffy related ideas and lately i feel its got worse with the new DA and chaos vehicles. All we will probably get will be some kind of "viking" dragonship Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Thanks Dswanick. Much appreciated. I think part of the issue with flyers for most Wolves is not Fluff. It's that GW being GW is forcing you to shell out more coin to stay potentially competitive. Do we require flyers or special air defence? No, I don't think so because we are a midfield army wit S4 weapons & most flyers are A:10. Err... The Big, Scary fliers at the moment are Necron Croissants (AV 11, so impervious to bolters), Vendettas (Av 12/12/10, although less threatening to foot lists as they're mostly just packing lascannons), and Heldrakes (12/12/10, 5+ invul, and It Will Not Die USR. Also, it can vector strike and shoot the torrent weapon in a 360' Arc). Stormraven and Stormtalon are also both AV >10 on all sides. It's just the Razorwing and Ork fliers that are AV 10/10/10 (Not counting Forgeworld, because I don't have IA:Aeronautica). I'm not sure what fliers you're refering to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 still, a single quad gun has a decent chance of taking on an enemy flyer. the main problem arises once you need to deal with 2-3-more of them, however, just like in real life only a dedicated anti flyer list would stand a chance against something like that. the general priciple still applies: dedicated list > balanced list in most scenarios. i guess it boils down to how competitive your gaming group is. me and my regular opponent always decide beforehand what types of lists we'll be using so none of us starts hating a game after turn 2. we don't get to play that many games so making win-at-all -costs-no-fun lists are a thing we rarely field. perhaps you could try something similar? just ask your opponent not tos pam the flyers since A) you don't have the cash to shell out on expensive flyersantiflyers yourselves it'll make the game much more boring, kind of like "tau in close combat with a dreadnought during 5th edition"-boring.... offcourse you could also give him a tast of his own by asking if he'd like a game against the following. -aegis defence line+quad gun -allied imperial guard platoon with sabre heavy weapon platform, you could have up to 18 platforms i believe -allied hydra platforms (3 of them) -allied vendetta squadron (3 of them) -3 hyperios whirlwind tanks -9 hyperios missile launcher batteries perhaps than he'll understand that spamming certain units isn't that much fun to play against Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Well, I guess we need to utilize the low cost of LF missle spam more? I agree with others that we should be able use flyers through allies as well. I've not been able to play 6th. How has everyone been handing flyers? And how much do you think you'll need to change with the new availability of other SM's having flyers? I think if they don't give us a flyer they need to make those flakk's available to us asap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 The availability of fliers isn't going to be that big a change; It's going to make pure Codex Marines a bit more practical, but the real offenders in flier balance issues are the Heldrake and the Vendetta. The Stormraven is too expensive to be spammed, while the Stormtalon doesn't dominate murder MEQs/Vehicles the way the Heldrake and Vendetta do, respectively. On Flakk Missiles: The issue with flak missiles is that they need to be taken in several squads, lest your opponent be able to clear them out before/as their flier arrives. They're also rather expensive, making equipping a whole pack of Long Fangs with them impractical. Generally speaking, our best would be three packs kitted out like so; 6 Long Fangs (160 points) -5 Missile Launchers (2 with Flakk Missiles). Maybe give another wolf Flak Missiles if you had points left over. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 As long as we dont get some stupid "wolf" flyer like the new DA flying tomb, i hate the way GW come up with stupid fluffy related ideas and lately i feel its got worse with the new DA and chaos vehicles. All we will probably get will be some kind of "viking" dragonship Just give me the rules and I will find/build the model. Squark I may have missed it but we can now have flakks?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Slightly off topic.. but.... The more I read this whole "fight on the ground as Russ intended" the more I get frustrated with people. No where in Space Wolf lore does it say we don't like/want to use fliers. We just don't like Jump Packs/Teleportation, end of story. There is no referance in the 2nd 3rd or 4th codex, there is no reference in ANY of the Space Wolf books that have came out. As a matter of fact most of what I read is along the lines of other Wolves (like in the Ragnar book) watching Space Wolf airmen doing crazy stungs like diving into large atmospheric decents and then pulling up on the throttle right before they crash. Russ didn't use a jump pack, so we won't use a jump pack... He didn't use a jump pack like that emotional wreck Corax. Nor did he fly around like that Freak Sanguinius on wings. The Primach was a genious not an idiot, as such I can see wolves grabbing a pint, getting behind a Storm(flying thing here) and doing all sorts of crazy. To say that we won't use a flier because we want to "keep our feet on the ground" is just plain ignorance. and on a side note.... I use a Master of the Forge (Iron Priest) with a conversion beamer . 5 scouts (wolf scouts) with sniper rifles, and a Storm Talon. Great little add on. and has worked well for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 As long as we dont get some stupid "wolf" flyer like the new DA flying tomb, i hate the way GW come up with stupid fluffy related ideas and lately i feel its got worse with the new DA and chaos vehicles. All we will probably get will be some kind of "viking" dragonship Just give me the rules and I will find/build the model. Squark I may have missed it but we can now have flakks?? No, sorry to confuse. I was speaking in hypotheticals (Price of Flakk missiles was based off their costs in the two previous codexes. Bear in mind though that Long Fangs are most likely going to get more expensive in the next release... That is, they would be more expensive if you tried to balance the codex against the previous two releases, anyway) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 "The more I read this whole "fight on the ground as Russ intended" the more I get frustrated with people. No where in Space Wolf lore does it say we don't like/want to use fliers. We just don't like Jump Packs/Teleportation, end of story. There is no referance in the 2nd 3rd or 4th codex, there is no reference in ANY of the Space Wolf books that have came out. As a matter of fact most of what I read is along the lines of other Wolves (like in the Ragnar book) watching Space Wolf airmen doing crazy stungs like diving into large atmospheric decents and then pulling up on the throttle right before they crash. Russ didn't use a jump pack, so we won't use a jump pack... He didn't use a jump pack like that emotional wreck Corax. Nor did he fly around like that Freak Sanguinius on wings. The Primach was a genious not an idiot, as such I can see wolves grabbing a pint, getting behind a Storm(flying thing here) and doing all sorts of crazy. To say that we won't use a flier because we want to "keep our feet on the ground" is just plain ignorance." Exactly !!!!! I could not have expressed this in a better way, I wonder.... How many of you have lost games badly because of fliers ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrumIgnatus Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Have no fear, Space Wolves will certainly get a flyer that shoots Blood Claws and craps Thunderwolves while simultaneously peppering the tabletop with Wolf Guards in Terminator Armour.. and they'll call it "The Flyin' Russ o' Doom" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Have no fear, Space Wolves will certainly get a flyer that shoots Blood Claws and craps Thunderwolves while simultaneously peppering the tabletop with Wolf Guards in Terminator Armour.. and they'll call it "The Flyin' Russ o' Doom" You forgot the part where it has feet instead of landing skids, and has to enter Hover mode in order to shoot - "with it's feet on the ground as Russ intended"... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 tbh i play a flier based guard list allot (although i got a bit bored of it and am back to playing my wolves again now) and yeah none of my gunships have ever been taken out, but on the other hand they don't really do a great deal of damage either. sure they take out the odd tank, but they are really limited on time when they actually have a target to shoot at, and if i go into hover mode to line up a shot, then i am massively vulnerable in cc, and it really wouldn't be hard to get a squad into cc with them. I think my win loss ratio is about 1:1 with that list, sure my fliers are always alive at the end, but the rest of my army is sleeping in the red snow. the thing that annoys me is that we have not been given the option, i mean even the black templars, basically the most neglected codex that has ever existed get access to fliers! it makes me think that they are planning to release a new flier for us, or at least give us access to anti air, maybe in a white dwarf, but hell, could we have a new codex on the horizon? also whenever i have gone up against an aegis line with a quad gun it has done bugger all, maybe takes 1 hull point off with interceptor, but then my vendetta just puts 3 twin lascannons into it and blows it to hell, so i don't really think that is the solution to flier problems Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3307870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Slightly off topic.. but.... The more I read this whole "fight on the ground as Russ intended" the more I get frustrated with people. No where in Space Wolf lore does it say we don't like/want to use fliers. We just don't like Jump Packs/Teleportation, end of story. There is no referance in the 2nd 3rd or 4th codex, there is no reference in ANY of the Space Wolf books that have came out. As a matter of fact most of what I read is along the lines of other Wolves (like in the Ragnar book) watching Space Wolf airmen doing crazy stungs like diving into large atmospheric decents and then pulling up on the throttle right before they crash. Russ didn't use a jump pack, so we won't use a jump pack... He didn't use a jump pack like that emotional wreck Corax. Nor did he fly around like that Freak Sanguinius on wings. The Primach was a genious not an idiot, as such I can see wolves grabbing a pint, getting behind a Storm(flying thing here) and doing all sorts of crazy. To say that we won't use a flier because we want to "keep our feet on the ground" is just plain ignorance. and on a side note.... I use a Master of the Forge (Iron Priest) with a conversion beamer . 5 scouts (wolf scouts) with sniper rifles, and a Storm Talon. Great little add on. and has worked well for me. Yeah, I understand the Space Wolves "like" fighting on the ground more, but look in the codex, page 5 "The Sky Warriors". The Wolves aren't just a bunch of mindless foot soldiers, they're still a Marine Legion who utilizes advanced tactics, even if they are a bit more aggressive than their power armored brothers from other chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3308058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 *Looks around and notices all the grim faces and far to serious talk, as if the sky were falling* Hey, Dswanick? *throws a rabid bloodclaw at his face* Theres youre AA right there! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3308108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 *Looks around and notices all the grim faces and far to serious talk, as if the sky were falling* Hey, Dswanick? *throws a rabid bloodclaw at his face* Theres youre AA right there! **ducks, counters with a wildly swung long fang** "With big, sharp, pointy teeth!!!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3308129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 [walks through the door into these forums for the first time and sees wolf lords throwing troops at each other] wow this really is a space wolf forum, all i need now is a horn of mjod Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3308134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astoran Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 *Hands Gaius a horn of mjöd and invites him to the table to watch the flying circus of wolves* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3308146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 thank you friend, now if i could just work out how to change this damn space smurf name and clean the last of this blue paint off my armour everything would be grand Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3308159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Legionnaire Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I'm new to the hobby and even though I collected IG for a short period of time I decided to go with the Space Wolves as my gaming Army. I have always loved aircraft, and I was highly disappointed to find out (after I had already started buying Space Wolves) that the Wolves have no access to fliers per the codex or rules. Evidently, GW does a lot of frustrating crap to those who play the hobby and people either leave the hobby or continue to play because they love it. It sounds like GW doesn't do a whole lot of listening to the customer base... anyway. Do you guys think they'll even bother with updating something for the Space Wolves? Also, I completely agree with everyone that thinks the "wolves only fight with both feet planted firmly on the ground" is utter and complete crap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3308272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Do you guys think they'll even bother with updating something for the Space Wolves? it shows that you just recently started playing with space wolves( note i don't mean this as an insult ;) ). it took over 9 years before we got our current codex and frankly, we don't need a new one, in fact, i'dd feel insulted if i had to buy a new dex just for an extra flyer and some anti flyer rockets. our current codex is a well balanced codex that allows very powerfull build, and really doesn't need that much fixing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/2/#findComment-3308479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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