Grey Mage Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 *catches the long fang and sets him down gently* Why hello Asmundr, off you go. Personally, I dont want the stormraven, but Id gladly include that eagle in my forces. While Ill never accept this odd idea some people have that FW is automatically legal to play with, I do rather prefer when its legal for events. For those of you new to the Fang, dont eat any of the pancakes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 On thiking about this whole flyer thing a little bit(all right, I'll admit it--I woke up at 2:30 this morning with this silly little idea--silly silly silly)what if GW decides to let Wolves have flyers like this:one flyer choice per Force organization representing a unit captured as booty/trophy. In one of the Ragnar books, Thunderfist's Great Company's flag ship is a captured Imperial Navy Cruiser that was taken as a prize & hence never given back. Why not the same with a flyer? I know it would have to be limited to certain Codexs but just a thought. Not sure it was worth waking up at 2:30 in the morning for though!LOL!!! Addendum--Throws a Lone Wolf on to the table from the shadows. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 *Grey Mages eyes glow blue as lightning arcs from his outstretched hand into the darkness of the rafters* Get down from there and fetch and old man some Ale!You know though, thats how we got the Crusader back in the day- they just said "well now, take 0-1 if you like" and it was so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Stepping out of the shadows of the beam under the rafter, passes a horn of ale.--Yea, that was going around in my head after I posted that. It would be nice & solve some problems rules wise & fluff wise quite easily. But this is GW...LOL!!. I guess I'll keep tinkering with my conversion. Gotta figure out some appropriate size missile pods. Trying to keep it as close to the real thing as possible. Do like allth e input in these threads folks, keep it up & thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Scourge Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 We need a flier.(Storm Eagle/Caestus/or something new) Flakk is available to two GW proper armies now. How many times do you see it used? Instead of just saying "ahh well I can wait until they update with Flakk" maybe look at what you'll eventually get. It'll probably be 15-20 pts per model. :cuss's not cheap. GW doesn't want a bunch of people killing their expensive flier sales with 20 pt model upgrades that get them NO money. So even if you get Flakk you'll never have enough to take out a list with three or more fliers in it. At least not fast enough to save you from getting mangled for a few turns. You have Skyfire, but not Interceptor...which is what really scares fliers. You'll only be able to equip them on units that hug your table edge in most cases. Hell, I use Betrayal and I don't equip Flakk. It costs too much, there's zero modeling involved so no hobby benefit, and you can get similar results without broadcasting which units your opponent should target first. You're adding at least another hundred points to your unit with no guarantee that you'll play an opponent with fliers. Meanwhile, if you have a flier you're not just reactionary you can actually use those points to attack other stuff...you know...besides fliers. PS: I didn't even mention how optimistic it is to have the expectation of Flakk missiles for SWs btw. Seeing as how we have Split Fire, I could easily see GW ignoring our little problem in favor of avoiding the creation of a game wide problem. If someone went crazy with their HS slot point allotment imagine three Long Fangs squads, all with Flakk, able to target up to six units per turn? Yeah, that wouldn't cut into GW's new flier model profits at all. Especially with the ally system. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki-LaughingDeath Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 No more ridiculous than some of the flying circus lists out there. Personally I am okay with not having air support as long as we have anti-air capabilities. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Scourge Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I just don't get the logic behind that decision. Doesn't mean you're wrong, but I don't see it. I mean, I'm looking at Betrayal right now. Heavy Support Squad is 135 base. Isn't that around what a five man Long Fang squad starts at?(loaned my SWs codex out) I'm trying to avoid violating any board rules, but a bare bones HSS built to combat aircraft is only fifty or so points less than a Storm Eagle with good upgrades. That fifty or so points difference gets you Missiles AND Lascannons...and an up to twenty man transport capacity in an assault vehicle that still carries the Deepstrike rule. Doesn't that sound like a lot more fun than adding a Flak entry to your army list?(pretending for the time being that money grows on trees and FW flows from your faucet of course) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I just don't get the logic behind that decision. Doesn't mean you're wrong, but I don't see it. I mean, I'm looking at Betrayal right now. Heavy Support Squad is 135 base. Isn't that around what a five man Long Fang squad starts at?(loaned my SWs codex out) I'm trying to avoid violating any board rules, but a bare bones HSS built to combat aircraft is only fifty or so points less than a Storm Eagle with good upgrades. That fifty or so points difference gets you Missiles AND Lascannons...and an up to twenty man transport capacity in an assault vehicle that still carries the Deepstrike rule. Doesn't that sound like a lot more fun than adding a Flak entry to your army list?(pretending for the time being that money grows on trees and FW flows from your faucet of course) No, the Support Squad is more expensive by more than a Grey Hunters worth. Still, youre right flakk is expensive- more than it needs to be. And sure the Storm Eagle is great- but why have only one solution to a problem? Not that the storm eagle is a particularly good interceptor anyways. Id like to see an Eratta adding Flyers to the vehicle types affected by Tempests Wrath personally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 and living lightning and murderous hurricane need skyfire :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I could see living lighting, but murderous hurricane seems... well, very short ranged. Id be ok with keeping it as is, especially as its S3 anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 *knows it wouldn't be all that usefull* but it just seems fitting for a murderous hurricane to affect stuff that's in the air just as well as stuff that's crawling over the ground... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 just from a physics point of view, can lightning actually hit stuff that is flying? i didn't think it would because it needs something to be grounded, which obviously a flier isn't (my only science knowledge is biology so i may be wrong on this) i still don't think fliers are that big of an issue though, having used flier based forces. on larger tables i can imagine they can cause a problem, especially things like valkyries with outflank so they can do a strafing run on the whole board. but on your average 4x4 board (the ones usually played at my store) then you will be lucky to get 2 turns with targets to hit before you have to go off again or hover i do like the idea of psychic attacks on fliers though, maybe a rule where murderous hurricane becomes str 10 against fliers or skimmers. if anything 100mph winds should be more devastating to stuff that is flying in the air after all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Last 2 games were vs flyer spam. I didn't stand a chance. The game vs Cron his 3 flyers killed my entire army before I even managed to reach any of his troops. They ARE game changing, and most definatly an issue. Those who claim otherwise haven't played against someone worth his salt using such lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 lol well i can guarantee that i am not using my fliers properly hehe, i use them to deploy demo guard vets with maxed out special weps. now they really can put a big dent in an enemy army what size board were you on though blacksad? and what points? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonarmy Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Last 2 games were vs flyer spam. I didn't stand a chance. The game vs Cron his 3 flyers killed my entire army before I even managed to reach any of his troops. They ARE game changing, and most definatly an issue. Those who claim otherwise haven't played against someone worth his salt using such lists. the Necron flyers are great against infantry and light armour. in many ways i prefer them to vendettas as i think they are better value for their points on the whole. Someone previously mentioned that flak is expensive. whilst i agree in the main our long fangs have the advantage of being able to split fire. this makes the missiles easier to make their points back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 just from a physics point of view, can lightning actually hit stuff that is flying? i didn't think it would because it needs something to be grounded, which obviously a flier isn't (my only science knowledge is biology so i may be wrong on this) Lightning strikes are the bane of real-world aircraft. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 just from a physics point of view, can lightning actually hit stuff that is flying? i didn't think it would because it needs something to be grounded, which obviously a flier isn't (my only science knowledge is biology so i may be wrong on this) Lightning strikes are the bane of real-world aircraft. awesome, then yeah living lightning with skyfire hehe Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Are there any flyers that would give Land Raiders a problem? I know the Lascannons on a Vendetta could potentially do some damage, but the chances are low enough that I'd be willing to take that risk... anything nastier than that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 the necron one has gaus on it doesn't it? that could be annoying as with all necron stuff other than that i think its str 8 missiles for pretty much everything else. i think all imperial fliers have the option of a lascannon somewhere, but that is a single shot mostly so needs to be fairly lucky to kill it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 the necron one has gaus on it doesn't it? that could be annoying as with all necron stuff other than that i think its str 8 missiles for pretty much everything else. i think all imperial fliers have the option of a lascannon somewhere, but that is a single shot mostly so needs to be fairly lucky to kill it Nope, Croissant wing is spamming S7 AP - Tesla weapons, not guass. Mind you, a lucky roll with the Death ray (S10 AP 1) can in theory blow multiple Land Raiders to bit with a single shot (Basically, it's a variable length line attack, although it doesn't get to snipe models since the wounds are allocated to the unit)... If you're foolish enough to put them close together when facing such a weapon (So... Don't). Most Imperial fliers can mount a twin-linked lascannon, although only the Vendetta packs enough to be truly threatening. Mind you, Stormravens and Storm Eagles do pack a twin-linked multi-melta in addition to their missiles (Actually, the Storm Eagle usually swaps those missiles out for 2 TL-Lascannons) and turret weapon. The Caestus packs an 18" Melta blast (or large blast, don't remember which). Meanwhile the Razorwing is relying on it's dark lances for anti-vehicle duty (Being lance weapons, something to actually be concerned about. I think the missiles are anti-infantry blasts, though) I don't know anything about the various Ork fliers or other FW fliers, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
montegue Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Twin helldrakes can basically destroy most 1850 Space wolf lists all by it's lonesome. You have to get terribly lucky to bring them down before they wipe your army out completely. Right now, Logan with a squad of terminators to guard the home objective and everyone else getting to close combat immediately is my only real defense if I don't want to take allies. And, since Im new to the game and don't want to just buy into another army to have those allies, I'm stuck with trying to cobble together a solution out of a series of bad choices. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3308974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Legionnaire Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I sent GW an email about the new flyer updates and asked what the Space Wolves players were supposed to do. The representative told me they were new updates or rules but just a Compendium and completely doged everything I asked about the Space Wolves chapter. I sent another email pressing the questions again and they haven't emailed me back since. I think it's all a bunch of BS and it's pretty angering. Like I said, I guess this is just how GW operates? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3309093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Small games Aegis Defense Line w/ Quadgun (100pts), manned by a PA Lone Wolf (20pts) = "Be gone Hellspawn." (120pts). Large games Aegis Defense Line w/ Quadgun (100pts), manned by a TDA Lone Wolf (45pts), and a Hyperios Air Defense Battery X3 Launchers (105pts) = "No Flyers for you!" (250pts). Flyers? Flyers?!? We don't need no steenking Flyers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3309098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommie Soule Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I just want a SW flyer and I will have one in my army regardless of any text anywhere any format. Enjoy the hobby x Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3309102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Flyers are powerful but not particularly game breaking in my experience, at least no more so than anything else that's come along. As for SW Flyers, I don't know what we will get. Battle for the Fang mentioned something called the Skarr gunship, there have also been mentions of Hawkwings, and Dropfalcons in various material, all of which have yet to see models or rules in any medium so it is possible we may see one or more of these given to the SW at some point in the future or something else entirely. However I would expect something before too long as we are now the only Space Marine Codex without access to a gunship and if we were not given the Stormraven I find it likely we will get something else relatively soon in a White Dwarf release. GW has been pretty avid about spreading flyers to every codex with relative haste. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271402-death-from-the-skies/page/3/#findComment-3309335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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