Horus Heresy Books/Armies

[ForTheLion]

Hello Everyone!

I recently bought the Horus Heresy Betrayal book and i absolutely loved it, and having seen the minis sold on the website of forgeworld im greatly impressed.

I was wondering however whether they will make such "army lists" for all the legions? Myself i am a DA player and i would love to get my hand on an army of DA pre heresy!

Have we any info whether or not there will be any more books/army lists/legions released like the WE/EC/LW/DG were in Betrayal? And if so do we have a rough time estimate?

[Kol Saresk]

IIRC, Forgeworld has said it will do so with like the very next book having to deal with the Dropsite Massacre I believe, although I have no idea when that will be.

[Jareddm]

The Isstvan V massacre is being divided into two books.  Horus Heresy Book 2: Massacre will contain army lists and units for Word Bearers, Night Lords, Salamanders, and Raven Guard, with additional Mechanicum and Imperial Army units.  I have a feeling the Dark Angels will get a whole book to themselves to represent the war on Caliban, or maybe even a expansion on the battles between the Dark Angels and the Night Lords that kept them occupied for so long.  As for release dates, your guess is as good as mine.

[Kol Saresk]

They might do something just for the Ultramarines and Dark Angels to cover the forces in the Eastern Fringe. Maybe add the Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors and Iron Hands into that somehow.

[Jareddm]

Pretty sure the second half of Isstvan V will have Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, and Iron Hands as well.

[Kol Saresk]

It might. It might not. You're probably right though.

[AekoldHelbrass]

The Isstvan V massacre is being divided into two books.  Horus Heresy Book 2: Massacre will contain army lists and units for Word Bearers, Night Lords, Salamanders, and Raven Guard, with additional Mechanicum and Imperial Army units.

Hm, that sounds quite strange. They said they will do it by the HH books, and in books it was Legions-only conflict, without a guard or Mechanicus. And first wave consisted of Raven Guard, Salamanders and Iron Hands, so it would be quite strange to release first Massacre book with not so relevant forces.

 

Also, somehow I thought that as first book contains all main rules for Legions and all Army Lists, plus allies chart, then second book will have only 7 Massacre Legion-specific forces and Primarchs covered, plus campaign of course.

[Jareddm]

I have a feeling that the two Isstvan V books aren't going to be chronological, but instead focusing on events occurring on different parts of the planet.  Completely speculative on my part, but it was stated at Games Day UK that book 2 will be Word Bearers, Night Lords, Salamanders, and Raven Guard.

 

And yes, the first book does have the main rules but there's next to nothing for mechanicum and nothing at all for Imperial Army, both of which are being developed as armies for the HH series.

[Bewlay]

The FW team stated at one of their events, that Massacre will feature Word Bearers, Night Lords, Iron Hands and Salamanders, and that it should be out late in the year.

 

The book after will probably detail the Raven Guards escape against Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion. 

[Nehekhare]

FW also mentioned more mechanicum, and in fulgrim, we are told that "hooded adepts of the dark mechanicum used perverted technologies stolen from the auretian technocracy to wreak havoc upon the loyalists" during the dropside massacre.

[Kol Saresk]

I have a feeling that the two Isstvan V books aren't going to be chronological, but instead focusing on events occurring on different parts of the planet.  Completely speculative on my part, but it was stated at Games Day UK that book 2 will be Word Bearers, Night Lords, Salamanders, and Raven Guard.

 

And yes, the first book does have the main rules but there's next to nothing for mechanicum and nothing at all for Imperial Army, both of which are being developed as armies for the HH series.

Well IIRC, there was that big hunt for the surviving Salamanders and Raven Guard(maybe surviving Iron Hands?) so maybe it will be split up between the initial massacre and then the hunt.

The FW team stated at one of their events, that Massacre will feature Word Bearers, Night Lords, Iron Hands and Salamanders, and that it should be out late in the year.

 

The book after will probably detail the Raven Guards escape against Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion.

That would make sense.

[Nova_Dew]

They (FW) have noted that the base list for all legions is the one in Betrayal and that the later books will add to this

[Brother Keyaetus]

I think iron warriors should be part of the first book, I always imagined them being the biggest out of the four (word bearers, alpha legion and night lords) who cause most damage during the actual massacre. The iron warriors took the most solidified ground and dealt with most fleeing loyalists it seemed, wont be happy if they aint in the next book, especially since I just started preheresy iron warriors.

[Kol Saresk]

No offense, but IIRC, the Iron Warriors mostly set up the "defenses" that would prevent most of the Iron Hands, Raven Guard and Salamanders from retreating. And I think the Alpha Legion even stayed next to them while the Word Bearers and Night Lords were right in the thick of it. I'll have to recheck The First Heretic and Fulgrim to make sure.

 

EDIT: A quick perusal of Lexicanum shows the Night Lords and Alpha Legion taking the flanks of the landing position, the Iron Warriors taking the high ground behind the drop zone and the Word Bearers taking up the position behind the Raven Guard and Salamanders.

 

The 40k Wiki describes it a little bit differently with the Iron Warriors taking the landing zone(so that little tidbit didn't change) while the Word Bearers and the Night Lords surrounded the Urgall Depression. When the Salamanders and Raven Guard began their retreat, they ran back to the XVII and VIII Legions, who then opened fire on them.

 

The First Heretic(pages 424-427) has it as the Night Lords on one side of the Urgal Depression flanking the battle, the Alpha Legion on the other with their "war machines"(doesn't describe what the war machines are) with the Iron Warriors taking the high ground in the landing zone.

 

The Word Bearers reinforced all three positions. The line of Night Lords and Word Bearers would be the first to fire as the Salamanders and Raven Guard were retreating back to them. The Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion would flank them and be "the hammer that falls on their foes." To be honest, The First Heretic's account is a little confusing because one minute it is saying how the Night Lords and Word Bearers are in one line and then the next it is saying how Argel Tal is watching Sevatar and the Atrementar on the far side of the Iron Warriors. Logically, it would be safe to infer that Argel Tal was simply in the line of Iron Warriors and Word Bearers. Which makes sense because looking back at page 420, we see Lorgar ordering the Gal Vorbak to stand with the Iron Warriors.

 

So to be honest, if I were to say which one "Massacre" Legion did the most damage, I would probably say the Word Bearers simply because they were the only Legion attacking from three sides.

 

EDIT SECUNDUS: I did not go through Fulgrim because The First Heretic provided a rather detailed(if slightly confusing) account of how the Dropside Massacre happened. But if it is requested, then I will go through the book. Also had to fix some bad code.

[AllHailTheMachine]

As forgeworld is going down the direction of two books for istvaan V it makes sense that the third book would focus upon the fall of Ferrus Manus and the last stand of his Morlocks.

 

This is an epic event in its own right and is a classic example of the fool hardy heroism by the loyalists that could be quite fun to play as part of a campaign. It would be great to have that go at taking out fulgrim in one on one and would be awesome to see the impact of this on the table topand in the campaign if successful.

 

I would also like to see this as the book that includes rules for the more corrupted elements of the traitors. So deamonically possessed fulgrim and,he 'New look' emperors children including the first noise marines (can't remember what the are called in the books).

[Nehekhare]

Emperor's Children obviously did the most damage during the massacre: first primarch kill.

[Brother Keyaetus]

Yeah, though I had always assumed that it was the iron warriors and their heavy ordnance and such that caused severe casualties on the crowded and wounded loyalists, and holding off the dropsite from retreating loyalists would be important. If there was to be a book called 'the hunt' Id imagine that it should consist of raven guard, salamanders, night lords and alpha legion while the first would be iron warriors, word bearers and iron hands. Would mean also that the supposed mechanicum  parts of the book that are rumored would fit well with both the iron hands and iron warriors.

[Kol Saresk]

To be honest, I haven't seen any mention of artillery. Not say it isn't there but the most I have seen I think is the word "tanks." As crowded as it got with eleven Legions filling one area, I don't think the Iron Warriors could have used artillery without causing some friendly fire. But since it looks like the Forgeworld books are somewhat following the BL Horus Heresy series, that means that after the Dropsite Massacre, there was still the hunt for Corax, described in Raven's Flight/i], The Face of Treachery and Deliverance Lost all by Gav Thorpe, with the hunt being mostly the Iron Warriors chasing down Corax until the very end when the World Eaters butted in. Since the Alpha Legion played a hand in the escape of Corax and the surviving Raven Guard, I imagine that is where they will lend a hand.

[Brother Keyaetus]

Hm, I might be wrong but wasn't them siege tanks Perturabo got from Lion'el Johnson used in the massacre or was that for something else?

Also I think at one stage the iron warriors started to not care too much about friendly fire, when the wreckage from fleeing ships was landing on more traitors than loyalists, and when Kor Phaeron vox's them about it a random captain goes  'We are all bleeding today, have faith Word Bearer', which made my inner traitor all giddy and hyper ;P

 

Although I never listened to the ravens flight so had no idea the iron warriors were the ones hunting down the raven guard, always assumed it was the night lords and alpha legion, then the world eaters at the end. Oops.

[Bewlay]

Hm, I might be wrong but wasn't them siege tanks Perturabo got from Lion'el Johnson used in the massacre or was that for something else?

Also I think at one stage the iron warriors started to not care too much about friendly fire, when the wreckage from fleeing ships was landing on more traitors than loyalists, and when Kor Phaeron vox's them about it a random captain goes  'We are all bleeding today, have faith Word Bearer', which made my inner traitor all giddy and hyper ;P

 

Although I never listened to the ravens flight so had no idea the iron warriors were the ones hunting down the raven guard, always assumed it was the night lords and alpha legion, then the world eaters at the end. Oops.

 

Yeah Ravens Flight details Corax's escape against the IW and WE, I can't remember if there are any other Legions listed but i remember those two most vividly 

[Kol Saresk]

Those special siege tanks are the macro-cannons found in the IA article on the Siege of Terra. I don't believe they have been used yet.

[Brother Keyaetus]

Corpse Emperor be damned, im too stubborn to admit that the army I just started aint gonna be featured til ages now. This makes me a sad astartes. Only a matter of time before I paint over my 5 missle launcher iron warriors...maybe, heres hoping rumors on the second book fly out soon.

[Kol Saresk]

Betrayal was only released like what, a few months ago? I'm pretty sure the third book will be here in no time. Besides, like AekoldHelbras suggested, it will probably be filled with fluff on those Legions, and then the points costs of special units for those Legions and then the Mechanicus and Army units. So as long as you have Betrayal, you can go ahead and build the core of your list and then just add all the special goodies. Or reformat into the special goodies.

[No Foes Remain]

IIRC Betrayal was first released at Games Day, then a few weeks after it became avaliable on their site. So I can see this release trend carrying on.

[Kol Saresk]

There is a BL+FW event like what? Tomorrow I think? Yeah, February 20. Maybe it'll pop up then.