Reclusiarch Darius Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 aka why I no longer take the Librarian I went warding stave+3 powers Libby for most of 5th. Always worth it, great for sliding powerfist wounds onto in a crucial melee, and his powers made my list tick. Lately though, I've found him a giant pointsink that really isn't doing what I wanted anymore. 'Sanctuary' is meh now (random charge distance, sigh...), 'Shrouding' is still legit but less important (4+ cover is eh, 3+ was good while it lasted, now I have to get Aegis to make that possible), and I find 'Might' less and less relevant when I go hammers a lot more (due to increased 2+ saves in my meta). The point is, he has good points, but just taking him for 'Shrouding' isn't cost-effective (as one example). Grandmaster tweaking with 'Grand Strategy' has really caught my fancy. Also, he's a melee beast and 'Communion' is really handy for Reserves. My preferred style (Terminator+Henchmen core, Purifier+PsyDread+DK support) is what he likes to go with. Make the Purifiers scoring in objective missions, Scout them into the mid-field in 'Purge' and arguably 'Relic' (just gun down all enemy Troops trying to go for it, drop Terminators onto it in later turns). All that a GM does best, he does while being attached to your beatstick Terminator/Paladin squad, up front. Librarian is more defensive in nature with his powers, and he doesn't like being melee. GM is 3++ without any upgrade, or 4+ with the hammer. Not to mention grenades replicate much of what the Libby does (rad nades are like a free 'Hammerhand', blind grenades removing charge bonus is ace against most assault units, psychostroke is mostly for lulz but it still works). How are other people finding the GM in 6th? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I love the GM, he's a beast. But I also run a Ghostwing, so the Libby+Staff is my go-to 2nd HQ for tanking challenges (and keeping Mordrak alive whilehe transports the Libby into combat). Everything you've posted about the GM is true, andif you aren't taking Paladins or Ghosts,a GM is the better HQ everytime. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3307899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraiOrk Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I've found what you're saying to be true. I was the same through 5th rocking the Libby every game. And the start of 6th he went well for testing the new psychic powers. But that's ultimately too unreliable and if I want Prescience I'll just throw in an Inquisitor. In 6th, it's just come down to anything the Libby can do, the Grand Master can do better IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3308391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Well, a few things Librarians can do better than Grand Masters are: Deny the Witch, Teleport Homer, Warp Rift, and Might of Titan. Of course, the GM can do everything else better. :D SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3308456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Is this just comparing GM to a libby or to all GK HQs? I agree that the GM is better than the libby but I still think coteaz is the best HQ in the book. 100pts for an ML2 psyker and one of the best force org swaps in the game? Add in the "I've been expecting you" special rule and he's definitely in the running for one of the best HQs in the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3308646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Thanks for the feedback guys. It really is incredible how much a new edition changes things. And to be fair, 6th isn't hugely different from 5th, all things considered. But yeah...Librarians just aren't good anymore, not for the points you pay. Coteaz+Inquisitor hand out psychic buffs way more reliably (re-rolls are so rare for Knights outside of fighting Daemons, its a godsend). The GM is a beatstick that makes stuff scoring/Scout, plus he helps with Reserves. Is this just comparing GM to a libby or to all GK HQs? I agree that the GM is better than the libby but I still think coteaz is the best HQ in the book. 100pts for an ML2 psyker and one of the best force org swaps in the game? Add in the "I've been expecting you" special rule and he's definitely in the running for one of the best HQs in the game. I completely agree. In fact, I can't physically write an army list anymore without Coteaz. 100pts for what he does...I'll be honest, he is ludicrously underpriced. I basically begin most list discussions with 'why aren't you bringing Coteaz+plasma cannon servitors for fire support/scoring?'. However, we do posses a second HQ slot, and barring another 'Prescience' Inquisitor (either in carapace, or tooled out with TDA+hammer+psycannon), we do have all the Knight HQ's. That's what my thread is really about, the second HQ slot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3308871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I never ran the Libby, too much Runes of Warding with my mates (which has only got worse in 6th lol). Don't forget the shenanigans the GKGM can have making your Black Templar Terminators scoring! As for Coteaz. I'm growing to despise him. I hate myself, the Grey Knights and 40k in general when every time I start building a list, I fight to justify *not* including him. Heck, it's the one thing I like about allies. If I run my GK as allies, with only the single HQ slot, it's a *lot* easier to not include him... Especially as that eats up your limited Troop Slots. But /sigh My GK are my primary force. I dispair at having to run them as allies to another army... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3308894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 As to Corteaz, for me, I want to play "Grey Knights" rather than "Imperial Guard MkII". Yes, I know that Hench-mobs are not "IG", yet if I wanted to make an IC-esque fast action team with psyker support, I'd go with Corteaz and company in a heart beat. However, I want to play a Chapter of Librarians with all their psychic weaponry and equipment. So, I'll still take my Ghostwing over your Hench-list any day of the week, because that's what I want to play. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3308981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 As to Corteaz, for me, I want to play "Grey Knights" rather than "Imperial Guard MkII". Yes, I know that Hench-mobs are not "IG", yet if I wanted to make an IC-esque fast action team with psyker support, I'd go with Corteaz and company in a heart beat. However, I want to play a Chapter of Librarians with all their psychic weaponry and equipment. So, I'll still take my Ghostwing over your Hench-list any day of the week, because that's what I want to play. SJ Coteaz, as an Inquisitor of the Ordo Malleus, has the authority to requsition Grey Knights. There's no reason you can't take Coteaz and run a Greywing list, neither logistically nor from a fluff perspective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3310265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Coteaz is still only 'human' and not a genetically altered Super Human Warrior Monk. ;) Sorry, a genetically altered Super Human Warrior Psychic Monk! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3310273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 I never ran the Libby, too much Runes of Warding with my mates (which has only got worse in 6th lol). Eh, it's still a 10 on 3d6. Plus, its not that hard to kill Eldrad, even with the Avatarbro he usually chains himself to. Don't forget the shenanigans the GKGM can have making your Black Templar Terminators scoring! Yeah, I've done that before. I think they'll FAQ it at some point...maybe As for Coteaz. I'm growing to despise him. I hate myself, the Grey Knights and 40k in general when every time I start building a list, I fight to justify *not* including him. As to Corteaz, for me, I want to play "Grey Knights" rather than "Imperial Guard MkII". Yes, I know that Hench-mobs are not "IG", yet if I wanted to make an IC-esque fast action team with psyker support, I'd go with Corteaz and company in a heart beat. However, I want to play a Chapter of Librarians with all their psychic weaponry and equipment. So, I'll still take my Ghostwing over your Hench-list any day of the week, because that's what I want to play. Fair enough. It is very hard to resist Coteaz though, he's just so insanely cheap and effective. Also, Henchmen dovetail into a lot of things Knights don't do (AP2, weapons over 24", cheap scoring). Coteaz is still only 'human' and not a genetically altered Super Human Warrior Monk. Sorry, a genetically altered Super Human Warrior Psychic Monk! I prefer Coteaz, Wizard of Space and Time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3310378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedley13 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Don't forget the shenanigans the GKGM can have making your Black Templar Terminators scoring! ... He can do that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3311899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 He can do that? Yes. TGS isn't Wargear, nor is it a Psychic Power. As long as the unit in question is eligable for TGS (as per the abilties restrictions) it's all good. If GW didn't want this (all be it they are also likely to just have been bad and missed this...), they it would have been FAQed like Litanies of Hate/Battle and all the other similar rules. Mad Doc can also make Strikes 'Cyborks' as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3311937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Mad Doc can also make Strikes 'Cyborks' as well. My sides have achieved low earth orbit. Yeah, 'Grand Strategy' is another relic of us being the last 5th edition codex. Much like how our unlock characters (Crowe and Coteaz) work even in an Allied detachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3312828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 25 points Strikes with a 5++/4++ In CC. ;) WAARRRRRGGGGGGG! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3312836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Wait...wait. Lets backtrack a bit here. Ward must have known about Allies in 6th, he factored in a lot of 6th edition meta when writing our codex (hence why we are still tied for 1st place with IG right now). Which means he must have known we could ally Orks, and thus Mad Dok could be our friend... He then writes rules for nemesis swords, which will be default close-combat weapon on all squads, to give a bonus in melee to invul. On anyone not in TDA (with therefore a 5++), its a totally useless effect...unless Mad Dok is giving cybork bodies to our power-armoured squads. And, from the background he wrote himself, it states that the Knights value practicality and efficiency over dogma and tradition...and they have known links to other alien species with weapon tech (psilencers are of non-human manufacture, as are tesseract orbs). Orks have the most durable and flexible weapon tech in the galaxy... .................................... My brain hurts now. Are GW really that clever, or is this another 'idiot savant' moment for them where they accidentally the whole game? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3312973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Idiot Savant. Totally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271476-grandmaster-your-hq/#findComment-3313013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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