appiah4 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I may be wrong bat RAW the following units are possible: Techmarine with Servo Harness (lots of guns) 5 Servitors with Servo Harness (lots of guns) or Techmarine with Jumppack, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol Servitors with Jumppack, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol Am I missing something? The second squad in particular is quite good, with 30 pt flying power sword zombiescouts.. Give either a Priest and they'll really be useful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I don't know how you're getting the servo harness or the jumppacks on the Servitors, the Techmarine seems to be the only model with either option. At first glance, I'm inclined to agree, but if you look closer, the Servitors and their options are at the bottom of the page, why it appears to me that the stuff above is only available for the Techmarine himself. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 I may be wrong bat RAW the following units are possible: Techmarine with Servo Harness (lots of guns) 5 Servitors with Servo Harness (lots of guns) or Techmarine with Jumppack, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol Servitors with Jumppack, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol Am I missing something? The second squad in particular is quite good, with 30 pt flying power sword zombiescouts.. Give either a Priest and they'll really be useful? That part only restricts the heavy weapons to the Servitors, it does not limit who can exchange their servo arms for servo harnesses or jump packs - the entry only states replace serva arm with this.. And Servitors have servo arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasmus of Baal Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 While it is rather vaguely worded, order of operations in the relevant entry seems to indicate that the Servitors can only take the upgrades specifically listed for them at the bottom of the entry, similarly to the ruling on the Furioso Dreadnought becoming a Librarian. Also, the entry as a whole is for the Techmarine; reflexive references can only indicate the Techmarine unless something else is specified. Honestly, the only part that makes this confusing (IMO) is the fact that the Techmarine is specified when adding Servitors is mentioned. That said, I would be more than happy to play against your awesome Techmarine-and-kitted-out-Servitors units, but I can't find any indication that the Servitors would get Bolt Pistols at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 While it is rather vaguely worded, order of operations in the relevant entry seems to indicate that the Servitors can only take the upgrades specifically listed for them at the bottom of the entry, similarly to the ruling on the Furioso Dreadnought becoming a Librarian. Also, the entry as a whole is for the Techmarine; reflexive references can only indicate the Techmarine unless something else is specified. Honestly, the only part that makes this confusing (IMO) is the fact that the Techmarine is specified when adding Servitors is mentioned. That said, I would be more than happy to play against your awesome Techmarine-and-kitted-out-Servitors units, but I can't find any indication that the Servitors would get Bolt Pistols at all. You are going with RAI when you say the first options are available only to the Techmarine - they are not, they do not refer to any specific model in the unit, and the Servitors are a port of the Techmarine unit which is given these options.. For argument's sake, check out every unit in the codex, when a specific upgrade is limited to a specific model, the upgrade option is preceded by model restrictions. Servo Harness, Power Sword and Thunder Hammer for the Techmarine unit are not. As for the Librarian upgrade argument, that upgrade forces you to exchange all wargear for a specific fixed set of wargear, a la Blood Champion, thus disallowing further upgrades, and is irrelevant. As for Bolt Pistols for Servitors, no, they don't have that - bu they do have have a second close combat weapon (which I mistakenly typed as Bolt Pistol) so they do get +1A for power swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 i think that you'd be hard pressed to sell this to most people, you seem to agree that RAI was not for servitors to have access to those options, yet you argue against it.also, in most every squad in most every codex, it would say which models, and how many of them may take a certain option, such as, any model in the squad may such and such, the only models that neglect to have that sort of specific wording, are IC because as units of one, they don't need it, and i think it's pretty clear this entry is the same, otherwise we might soon start seeing fenrisian wolves with MotW, belts of russ, and frost weapons attached to wolf lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 i think that you'd be hard pressed to sell this to most people, you seem to agree that RAI was not for servitors to have access to those options, yet you argue against it. also, in most every squad in most every codex, it would say which models, and how many of them may take a certain option, such as, any model in the squad may such and such, the only models that neglect to have that sort of specific wording, are IC because as units of one, they don't need it, and i think it's pretty clear this entry is the same, otherwise we might soon start seeing fenrisian wolves with MotW, belts of russ, and frost weapons attached to wolf lords. I wouldn't know their unit entry, do Wolf Lords have similar 'Take X for Y' points costs, or do fenrisian wolves have any wargear they can upgrade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I can't think of how you're getting a servo harness on servitors...you said RAI and common sense(I know, it's GW... ) prevent this from happening...why not keep to that? Even RAW is not that clear on that. As I said, the choices listed in the unit entry hint towards the Techmarine, the others to the servitors. A little bit of thinking is required, but it shouldn't be too hard... Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasmus of Baal Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 You are going with RAI when you say the first options are available only to the Techmarine - they are not, they do not refer to any specific model in the unit, and the Servitors are a port of the Techmarine unit which is given these options.. The older ruling on Furioso Dreadnoughts indicates that the order in which upgrades appear is relevant. For the initial unit purchase, you only get one Techmarine and no Servitors. Following the logic of the Furioso Dreadnought ruling, you cannot take the non-specific upgrades on a Servitor because when that option is available (that is, in top-to-bottom order) you have no Servitors. For argument's sake, check out every unit in the codex, when a specific upgrade is limited to a specific model, the upgrade option is preceded by model restrictions. Servo Harness, Power Sword and Thunder Hammer for the Techmarine unit are not. As for the Librarian upgrade argument, that upgrade forces you to exchange all wargear for a specific fixed set of wargear, a la Blood Champion, thus disallowing further upgrades, and is irrelevant. Your argument is only valid if it is the case that every non-specific upgrade can apply to each possible model in the unit. In the case of the Techmarine unit, Servitors cannot replace their Boltgun with anything because they do not have a Boltgun to begin with. The fact that even one not-wholly-specific entry is not universally applicable indicates that none of the not-wholly-specific entries are universally applicable because one must assume that the writer was being self-consistent while writing the Codex (as per the Principle of Charity). As for Bolt Pistols for Servitors, no, they don't have that - bu they do have have a second close combat weapon (which I mistakenly typed as Bolt Pistol) so they do get +1A for power swords. Also false. They come with a Close Combat Weapon and a Servo-Arm. If you replace the Servo-Arm with a Jump Pack, you are left with just one Close Combat Weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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