Raptor success story

[nurglez]

The thing about my fire support squad, is it can still charge into combat, it just wont have the 2-3 melta shots before charging. So it can still tie up shooty units that are rubbish in assault.

 

This is all theory of course, I did buy some raptors but am yet to assemble them, was thinking of buying another box set, then I can have a 7 man squad (mark of nurgle of course) and use the other 3 so I can run either a squad with 2plasma combi plasma or 2 melta combi melta, or even 2 squads of 5 :D

[Brother Ambroz]

Remember that TS are slow and purposeful and the rules for overwatch.

[derpasaurus]

Remember that TS are slow and purposeful and the rules for overwatch.

I always forget that. I don't have any TS and I don't see them that often, but you're right, slow and purposeful can't overwatch. Still, the thought applies. I'd rather be hit on 6s than 3s by ANYTHING. lol

[the jeske]

Juggerlords aren't really netlisting either guys, they're cool and I love mine, but they're not part of "the list" as Jeske or someone would say.

yep most of the time it is nurgle lords , because of pms . Bit disapointed about the raptor stories . hoped to hear more . But still a Good thread . Made me smile . Want to be different , not taking ax lord , take huron . A realy good one . As was the 1ksons thing .

[Brother Ambroz]

Yeah I didn't realize that my first game of 6th, which just happened to be against TS. Jeske I thought you'd like that.

[*Furyou Miko]

You might try, but you're more likely to be decimated by the AP3 bolters, then lose most of your advantage as they then proceed to assault you via Relentless.

[the jeske]

imo 1ksons should have a small 1ksons specific template like the gigants in WFB . and when "killed" they would scater fall over with str4 ap 4 and it would stack , so first 1ksons falling on you would be str 4 ap 4 , second would be str 5 ap 4 , third would be str 6 ap 4 and droped your i to 1 . If 4 1ksons fall on you in a single turn you would be removed from the game .

[*Furyou Miko]

lol. Too bad Thousand Sons actually weigh less than normal Marines...

[derpasaurus]

ALL IS DUST.

[diabloelmo]

I've had some decent use out of my Raptors in my Night Lords army. 8-man unit with twin meltas, dual lightning claws on the champ, and MoS with Icon of Excess. Bit on the pricey side, but they work marvelously as the bodyguard for my mace-wielding jump-pack lord. Their movement means that I can often keep them hidden from at least a goodly chunk of incoming firepower, and the FnP dramatically reduces the casualties taken from what shooting I do take. And once they reach combat... well, though I've admittedly never been silly enough to throw them up against a massive deathstar terminator unit, they have always made mincemeat out of large chunks of the opposing army. 

[the jeske]

lol. Too bad Thousand Sons actually weigh less than normal Marines...

ancient ultra hvy ceramit armor. old pre heresy suits were offten ment for bording action they weighted a lot more then the newer post hersy power armor suits. + all the dust inside.

[*Furyou Miko]

Nice dodge, haha

[Brother RedAxe]

I have had a great time with my raptors, with them taking out at least double their points every game. I run 6 with MOS 2 flamers and a power spear on the champ.

[Gman]

Is this an approproate post to ask about how well Warp Talons work? I'm considering getting a unit to add to my Alpha Legion army. I'm looking at the WT vs Raptors, because this army has TONS of shooting already, and is all foot sloggers. So something that is fast and hard hitting in CC is missing from the army. Comparing the two units, I think WT will serve me better. But before investing money into it, I wanted to know how well WT even perform.

[the jeske]

Do not buy Warp Talons , ever . you want a melee unit you get bikes to go with your lord. you dont take a lord ,but a DP [if your not runing cult troops] . you can take spawn if you realy realy realy want to tar pit . anything but not warp talons .

[*Furyou Miko]

Warp Talons are great!

 

... if you're looking for conversion parts.

[Gman]

Wow really, what's so bad about them? Points wise, I looked at 10 raptors, x2 flamers, PW and it costs the same as 8 talons. Do they just suck in the end, too expensive? This is why I'm here asking before getting some, but I didn't expect this kind of response.

 

Now comparing bikers I'm now seeing I can get 9 bikers, x2 plasmagun, PW for the points.  So are the bikers that superior, just because of the T5? I'm not looking for a tarpit, just something mobile and nasty in combat, to tear up either another nasty combat unit, or something I really don't want shooting at me.

[happybounce]

I think the points investment scares a lot of people off; they feel like 30 points for a unit with a 3+/5++ is a lot less durable than a terminator.  And it IS less durable, but a lot more mobile. I think they might be able to work well if there's a lot of other shooting options, but otherwise most people will tell you to avoid them.  But proxy some up and see how they work!  That's the best way honestly.  I personally avoid them because of how expensive the marks and upgrades are--same reason I tend not to run Chaos Terminators anymore.

[Brother Ambroz]

Bikes are considered cheaper, they move slightly faster and are more durable that's why they're so good. Not that raptors are bad either, if you want to use them as a retinue that's not a horrible idea. Jeske is just talking from a competitive perspective. If that's your angle then you definitely want bikes.

[*Furyou Miko]

Warp Talons do one thing well: Kill power armoured space marines in close combat.

 

Considering the utility of Raptors (meltaguns? tank hunting! flamers? Infantry hordes! Space Marines? We can take them with proper support!), the sheer staying power and mobility of bikes (Small arms fire? Nuisance! Tanks? Plasmagun in the rear! MEq? More plasma and TL bolters? Some left? We can still charge!), Helldrakes (Burn, baby... mwahaha) and Spawn (OK, they like tarpitting and are kinda funny against guard, but meh), Warp Talons are a bit like monotask servitors strapped to rockets.

[Azekai]

Warp Talons do one thing well: Kill power armoured space marines in close combat.

 

Considering the utility of Raptors (meltaguns? tank hunting! flamers? Infantry hordes! Space Marines? We can take them with proper support!), the sheer staying power and mobility of bikes (Small arms fire? Nuisance! Tanks? Plasmagun in the rear! MEq? More plasma and TL bolters? Some left? We can still charge!), Helldrakes (Burn, baby... mwahaha) and Spawn (OK, they like tarpitting and are kinda funny against guard, but meh), Warp Talons are a bit like monotask servitors strapped to rockets.

I like your stream-of-consciousness tactical assessments, Miko.

 

Cut those pretty warp talons up and give them purpose, that's the ticket.

[Gman]

Not as a retinue, although my Lord is magnatized all to heck, including his torso to legs, so I "coudl" put him on a mount/bike. :)  As I said, I'm looking for something to add to a VERY shooty, yet slow, floot slogging army. So for me, I'm just looing for the best way to spend 250 points, on a very mobile, CC unit. Just zipping up and shooting the snot out of something isn't what I'm looking for. I'm looking for something to zip up and charge in, and tear things up. I see bikes being resiliant, and lasting a while in combat, but with only one special weapon, the combat it could last a few turns.

 

-8 talons, 25 AP3 attacks on the charge with T4 and 3+/5+ saves; more manueverable as they fly over terrain and units

-9 bikes, 24 AP-, 4 AP3 attacks on the charge, T5 and 3+ save; charge preceeded by 14 TL bolters, 2 templates, large unit is less manueverable around terrain

 

That's what I see for the pros and cons. I suppose I have assault marines I can proxy with, and some ravenwing bikes to proxy with as well and see how they both do for me.

[*Furyou Miko]

Bikes have the advantage of relentless and the ability to charge in the second turn.

 

Warp Talons have to spend at least one turn in reserve, a second turn standing around being shiny, and then can only charge on the third turn at minimum (fourth or even fifth if you have bad luck with reserves rolls)

 

Edit: That's pretty much how I do all my assessments, whythre. ^^; It works surprisingly well for me, but then, I was a sailor.

[Gman]

Yes, nice break down on the tactical purpose of Talons.  LOL Probably 70% of the other armies are MEQ, so that's a good bit of work for them, to be sure. As for a drake, I already have one, and so far the feelings around here, (especailly after Saturdays tourny) is that anyone running two drakes is going to be booed out of the store. I heard battle reports of turn 2 forfeights because of guys running two baledrakes. I have one, it's even loaded with the hades for various reasons, and so far I'm happy with it. And it won't get me tossed out of the store.  ;)

 

I suppose I see more validity in bikers with plasma. So far in all my games of this Ed. plasma seems to rain supreme.

So 9 bikes, x2 plasmagun, power weapon, melta bombs, VotLW  is what I can squeeze in for the points. Or shave 5 points someplace else in the list, and take 10 bikes remove the melta bombs and VotLW.

[Brother Ambroz]

I'd say bikers are more what you're looking for then Gman. go with a couple plasmas, a duel geared champ, a fist/claw lord and you'd be good.