Sternguard Loadouts

[Yosef Hausakluif]

Just as the tile says; What is yuor ideal load-out for a sternguard squad?

 

I was thinking of running 6 man squads with a power fist and then a heavy flamer, melta gun and maybe one or two addtional combi-meltas thrown in.

 

Or, do you run all combi-meltas, etc?

 

What do you have the most luck with?

[Chronotonic]

when I played mine last it was 5th edition so the basic layout of power fist 3x combi-melta 5 man squad...

 

unfortantly I would swap the powerfist with a power sword...

[Excubitor]

I tend to run mine in full 10-man units, and have 2 preferred loadouts; barebones, with no upgrades, or with a Heavy Flamer and 4 combi-meltas. Which one I use depends on the list. I've also use 5-6 man squads with a Heavy Flamer and 2-3 Combi-meltas in razorbacks in mech lists.

 

I usually run my sergeants with either a Power Fist or Lightning Claw, again depending on my list and my opponent. I don't put combi's on them, against conventional wisdom, because it's never worked well for me in the past.

 

I have to admit, despite all the options available, I actually like running a 10 man, barebones squad the most. This way they don't pretend to be tank hunters, or tempt you to get up in the opponents face to get the most use out of them. This way they are an effective, reliable, flexible anti-infantry/monstrous creature unit that is especially powerful under the new Rapid Fire rules.

[Stormshadow]

I have only used them in 10 man squads with 8 combi-meltas and ether 2 Plasma guns or 2 Heavy flamers. It is rely expensive but they do win games and tournaments for you :). One of my favorite ways to run them is with Lysander in a land raider. This is one of the few units I use that has actually become better in 6^th :P.

[DarkGuard]

No more than 8 men in a Rhino, with no more than 4/5 special weapons and combi weapons. Any more and the squad becomes point inefficient.

 

Also, no combi flamers, heavy flamers are better.

 

Sergeant barebones, power fist or lightning claw.

[Yosef Hausakluif]

DarkGuard; What did you mean by 4/5 special weapons?

 

I was thinking:

 

1. Sgt. w/ bolter and pwr. fist

2. melta gun

3. hvy. flamer

 

2. & 3. or 2 heavy flamers

 

3 more marines with combi-metlas

 

What do you think?

 

Should the squad size be 6 marines or 8?  Maybe beef up their numbers by adding 'naked' bolter amred marines to get up to 8 man strong?

 

Also, is the metla gun a watse of points, and should I stick with the combi-bolters instead?

[Giga]

A mix of combimelta/combiplasma is where it's at. Get like 3-4 combimeltas and 5-6 combiplasmas and you got a nice big unit that can lay down the pain on pretty much any target they choose. 

 

Also, don't take power weapons/power fists. It's a waste of points, especially with the challenge mechanics in the game. 

 

I never really managed to make sternguard truly cost-effective. It just seems, no matter how you outfit them, other units can do the same job for fewer points.

[DarkGuard]

DarkGuard; What did you mean by 4/5 special weapons?

 

I was thinking:

 

1. Sgt. w/ bolter and pwr. fist

2. melta gun

3. hvy. flamer

 

2. & 3. or 2 heavy flamers

 

3 more marines with combi-metlas

 

What do you think?

 

Should the squad size be 6 marines or 8?  Maybe beef up their numbers by adding 'naked' bolter amred marines to get up to 8 man strong?

 

Also, is the metla gun a watse of points, and should I stick with the combi-bolters instead?

 

This is what I'm thinking is my ideal squad at the moment:

 

8 men, 2x combi-melta, 2x combi-plasmas, 1x heavy flamer, Rhino = 265pts.

 

It's a decently priced unit with a lot of firepower and flexibility, that isn't shabby in combat, has a nice WoD attack when charged, and is mobile, with room for a HQ.

 

Just out of interest, Giga's unit would cost most of 300pts, if not more, and probably not impact the game much more than this one.

 

When I said no more than 4/5 specials, the better word would have been upgrades. I don't like using more than half the squad for upgrades, stick the un-upgraded guys at the front. Of course, it's also a throw back to 5th Ed wound allocation. But it's still good now in keeping the points down, I don't like anyone unit being more than 300pts, including transport.

 

With numbers, 6 men for long-range units using 2 heavy weapons (you want them cheap and don't need the numbers), or 8 for those closing in Rhinos (you want weight of fire but 10 is points inefficient, 8 does the job nicely, and you fit a HQ or two in the transport). 10 is for Drop Pod units, where you devote half the squad to one role and the other to another, or just make them all melta, and combat squad when you hit the dirt.

 

I'll refer you to the Sternguard Tactica in my sig. It was written in 5th Ed and hasn't been updated yet, but the basic principles still apply. I'm planning a massive 6th Ed update on all my articles in the summer, when I've got a bit more time on my hands.

[Yosef Hausakluif]

Thnaks, that was a very helpful reply, and i appreciate the kind words of wisdom!

[Muctar]

One squad loadout that has been useful to me from time to time has been 10SG with 5 combi-melta, and 2 heavy flamers. In 5th ed this worked well in a pod as they could combat squad a they disembark. Then the meltas would take out a high priority target, most likely a land raider or some other transport, then the heavy flamers and bolters put as much hurt onto any nearby exposed infantry, preferably the contents of the transport that was destroyed.

 

In 6th this exact setup can still work, however with the new rules for combat squads and their transports it's possible to put both squads in a rhino. This version still provides the flexibility of the different squads the pod provides, as well as the protection and mobility of being in a rhino by trading out the suicide-esque alpha strike.

 

Either way it costs the same, which is relatively expensive at 330 points (including transport), but depending on what else is in a list the unit can amazing.

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

I play a 6 man squad with 2x combi-plas & 2x combi-meta w/ either drop pod or rhino/razorback depending on the list.

 

I play it like Giga no CC weapons. They are meant to use their special ammo as much as possible.

[Paulochromis]

In 5th I was running 6-8 man squads in rhinos, often with two heavies for top hatch shooting. Leaving space for a HQ made sense and kept the points cost down.

But in 5th and 6th for pods and now in 6th for rhinos, the ability to combat squad as you exit the vehicle is definitely worth looking at.

The ability to bring the pain to bear on two separate targets is really nice.

Admittedly, some of the 5th ed parking lots have disappeared, but that just means your combi-meltas can be saved for when something scary rocks up.

I think sternguard are some of the best First Blood "getters" in the game.

[DarkGuard]

Just a quick correction Paulochromis, you combat squad at the beginning of the game, you can just have two combat squads from the same parent squad in the dedicated transport purchased (if there's room). So you don't combat squad when you disembark, you combat squad when you start, as usual.

[Giga]

What's the point of ever giving vanilla sergeants melee weapons anymore? They'll get singled out by challenges all the time anyway, not to mention precision shots/precision hits. It's a massive waste of points for 2 power fist attacks that will prolly never even land.

[Muctar]

An argument can be made for a lightning claw on a sternguard sergeant since it allows him to keep a boltgun, gives him AP3 at initiative with Shred to make up for the loss of the two close combat weapons bonus you'd normally get from bolt pistol and power weapon. Of course its uses are limited and usually the result of a situation you don't want your sternguard in, since you want them free to shoot and not in an assault, but it can give them a chance to considerably better then they normally would.

 

The best example I can think of  is a squad of CSM charging your SG. The sergeant takes the challenge from the champion, since the champ has to challenge, and they slay each other with power weapons. Depending on how the rest of the squad fairs the combat could go either way, but at least you denied the champ the chance to roll on the boon table, which means he's not alive to saw through the rest of the squad at his leisure.

[Giga]

The sarge vs champ mutual kill story isn't exactly the surest outcome. You still have only 2 attacks that hit on 4+. It's very easy to miss or simply fail to wound even with the reroll. If the sergeant was I5 then maybe it'd make sense, but as it is it's a waste of points IMHO.

 

The only times sternguard should ever assault instead of rapid fire stuff is when it's against weak combat units like GEQ or small tactical marine squads, and you really don't need any claws or fists for that.

[Muctar]

Of course the outcome isn't certain. With dice, nothing ever is.

 

However, my point is that some people may want to put a power weapon on their sternguard because they find that they often end up in assaults due to their playstyle.

 

Sternguard are best kept out of assault for as long as possible and should be played and geared to keep themselves that way. The emphasis is on playing smart to keep assault-free.

[Paulochromis]

Just a quick correction Paulochromis, you combat squad at the beginning of the game, you can just have two combat squads from the same parent squad in the dedicated transport purchased (if there's room). So you don't combat squad when you disembark, you combat squad when you start, as usual.

Yeah, I was trying to emphasize that the contents of the rhino can disembark at different times, and target different units.

By the way, how do fire points work for a split squad sharing a transport?

Can, say, two combi-meltas from the first squad shoot, blow up a transport, then two heavy flamers from the second squad use the fire points again in the same turn?

Seems unfair, but not sure that RAW prevents it.

[Muctar]

I'm pretty sure it's one model per fire point can fire from the vehicle, so two in total for the passengers in a rhino.

[Atlantic]

I take 6 of them including the sergeant.  5 guys with bolters and 1 Multi Melta to discourage dreadnoughts.  They ride in a twl assault cannon razorback.  

 

Combi-weapons are coolin theory, but I really don't see the point in paying for one use items on an already expensiveish unit.  The boltguns in and of themselves can give you ap3 from the vengeance rounds.  Then you just use hellfire rounds on everything else.

 

There are more efficient methods of gaining ap2 fire than with sternguard if you need that sort of thing.  

[tvih]

There are more efficient methods of gaining ap2 fire than with sternguard if you need that sort of thing.

Not in the same volume - I wouldn't even say in the same cost efficiency. Plus of course a pile of combi-flamers or combi-meltas can do very nasty things as well.

 

I mean really, a Sternguard model costs 25 points. A combi-weapon increases to cost by 5 - that's a 20% cost increase for a power boost that's easily beyond 20%. With combi-plasmas suddenly you can drop tactical terminators like flies, for instance. And compared to, say, a Command Squad veteran with a plasma gun you're still paying less, with admittedly only one shot out of the plasma portion but with more versatility otherwise, as well as the option for larger squads, and the ability to take more than one squad. Not to mention not needing to have a Captain.

[rat of vengence]

6 man in rhino with 3 combi meltas make a resonably hard hitting and point efficient unit. I like to use them to lay fire support, so they rarely get too close, hence no heavy flamer. Of course, that works for me as there are 2 more rhinos of tacticals heading upfield with them.

 

Giving most/all upgrades is horribly inefficient.

 

RoV

[Sanguine Eternal]

I typically run a 10 man, bare bones squad, and foot slog it with the rest of my tactical marines, and find some cover.  I haven't had much luck with combi weapons due to dice rolls, so I only upgrade to combi meltas if I have spare points.  I also give my sgt. melta bombs in case of emergencies, but try to keep them out of combat as long as possible.  If you really want them to be effective, you throw your libby in their with prescience for your re rolls.

I have had tons of success with just a 10 man bolter squad, as I typically have a lot of other heavy weapons in my army to deal with armour.  I generally use the 30" range shot first round shooting, followed by hellfire every other round, but it really depends on the situation.  Rapid firing hellfire rounds are pretty scary.

I find by adding too many upgrades, and they become a very expensive unit, that can be killed just as easily as a tactical squad.  They just become a large target at that point...

[Atlantic]

 

There are more efficient methods of gaining ap2 fire than with sternguard if you need that sort of thing.

Not in the same volume - I wouldn't even say in the same cost efficiency. Plus of course a pile of combi-flamers or combi-meltas can do very nasty things as well.

 

I mean really, a Sternguard model costs 25 points. A combi-weapon increases to cost by 5 - that's a 20% cost increase for a power boost that's easily beyond 20%. With combi-plasmas suddenly you can drop tactical terminators like flies, for instance. And compared to, say, a Command Squad veteran with a plasma gun you're still paying less, with admittedly only one shot out of the plasma portion but with more versatility otherwise, as well as the option for larger squads, and the ability to take more than one squad. Not to mention not needing to have a Captain.

 

That 5 points hardly increases the efficiency beyond 20%.  You are paying for one shot.  (2 for rapid firing combi plas).  If you miss you have not increased your efficiency.  Combi weapons are pretty cool.  I think the bolters do just fine though.

 

I typically run a 10 man, bare bones squad, and foot slog it with the rest of my tactical marines, and find some cover.  I haven't had much luck with combi weapons due to dice rolls, so I only upgrade to combi meltas if I have spare points.  I also give my sgt. melta bombs in case of emergencies, but try to keep them out of combat as long as possible.  If you really want them to be effective, you throw your libby in their with prescience for your re rolls.

 

I have had tons of success with just a 10 man bolter squad, as I typically have a lot of other heavy weapons in my army to deal with armour.  I generally use the 30" range shot first round shooting, followed by hellfire every other round, but it really depends on the situation.  Rapid firing hellfire rounds are pretty scary.

 

I find by adding too many upgrades, and they become a very expensive unit, that can be killed just as easily as a tactical squad.  They just become a large target at that point...

 

Completely agreed.

[Bannus]

I typically run a 10 man, bare bones squad, and foot slog it with the rest of my tactical marines, and find some cover.  I haven't had much luck with combi weapons due to dice rolls, so I only upgrade to combi meltas if I have spare points.  I also give my sgt. melta bombs in case of emergencies, but try to keep them out of combat as long as possible.  If you really want them to be effective, you throw your libby in their with prescience for your re rolls.

 

I have had tons of success with just a 10 man bolter squad, as I typically have a lot of other heavy weapons in my army to deal with armour.  I generally use the 30" range shot first round shooting, followed by hellfire every other round, but it really depends on the situation.  Rapid firing hellfire rounds are pretty scary.

 

I find by adding too many upgrades, and they become a very expensive unit, that can be killed just as easily as a tactical squad.  They just become a large target at that point...

:tu: :tu:  Yup - this is pretty much my conclusion as well. However, if I run Vulkan - then I may upgrade one or two Sternguard to carry flamers (not combi-flamers). However, that decision is based more on fluff than anything else.