Our friends from the warp

[Hazath]

Natfka from Faeit is congratulating Phil Kelly for his "design success". He thinks codex is balanced and has lots of options.

 

Mysterious~

[the jeske]

I don't like hurting people, but I think Phil Kelly needs a punch right to the gut for this man. After he gave the Dark Eldar their awesome book, and Space Wolves their book, we got shafted. Maybe just shout out "Hey Phil, you're a dick for screwing Chaos over!" and give him the finger or something.

But the eldar are going to be awesome + its not like you cant switch to a different army using counts as .

you could even use those nice DE rules for a demon army. chariots as different raiders/venoms , demons as warriors/trueborn/wrecks. different herals as homonculi[nurgle] archos[khorn] , you could use the csm drake as the DE flyer and DPs/GD/soulgrinder as those MC DE have. even the bestmasters can be done nicely too [flokks are nurglings , different kind of beast are spawn/khorn pupps/demonetts of steeds] .

but that is not all because the DE can ally in normal eldar , you could take some marines and ally them as counts as eldar . which now would be nice[runes] , but when the eldar codex comes it would be ultra awesome and would give you a starting points for  eldar main[csm models] DE ally army[demon models] .

 

tons of conversion and modeling options , and sooner or later you get 2 one very nice and one ok army to play with .

[*Furyou Miko]

I'm sorry, guys. Clearly, this is all my fault.

 

I actually started stripping my greater daemon of tzeentch model with the intent to use him, so of course the universe swung round to boot me up the backside just in time to drop it into a tin of failium...

[Slayer le Boucher]

I expect there might be some cheap second hand daemons on ebay in a month or two.

A month or two?, i think closer to the next 48hours...

[Sception]

I feel bad for anyone nat convinces to start a daemon army with that review.  The level of willful ignorance and brainwashed fanboyism going around is pretty strong right now.

[*Furyou Miko]

Dammit! I just realised, this codex is dropping and I have NO money to take advantage of all the steals-for-deals on screamers and flamers!!

[Plaguecaster]

I don't like hurting people, but I think Phil Kelly needs a punch right to the gut for this man. After he gave the Dark Eldar their awesome book, and Space Wolves their book, we got shafted. Maybe just shout out "Hey Phil, you're a dick for screwing Chaos over!" and give him the finger or something.

But the eldar are going to be awesome + its not like you cant switch to a different army using counts as .

you could even use those nice DE rules for a demon army. chariots as different raiders/venoms , demons as warriors/trueborn/wrecks. different herals as homonculi[nurgle] archos[khorn] , you could use the csm drake as the DE flyer and DPs/GD/soulgrinder as those MC DE have. even the bestmasters can be done nicely too [flokks are nurglings , different kind of beast are spawn/khorn pupps/demonetts of steeds] .

but that is not all because the DE can ally in normal eldar , you could take some marines and ally them as counts as eldar . which now would be nice[runes] , but when the eldar codex comes it would be ultra awesome and would give you a starting points for eldar main[csm models] DE ally army[demon models] .

tons of conversion and modeling options , and sooner or later you get 2 one very nice and one ok army to play with .

I am pretty sure Kelly needs for than a punch to the gut damn loyalist and Xenos loving traitor.

I am sorry Jeske but using Daemons as count as dark Eldar is just a plain bad idea one mainly for the fact will be very annoying for both you and your opponent unless properly converted most wouldn't let you do it ,two it is such an insult to chaos ok you may not be a a major fluff person probably more a competitive player but some of us treat fluff like the bible no matter what way you do it it will still be a chaos daemon army, finally the fact of the matter is you shouldn't be forced to use a count as army for a army you love for their fluff and their models ok it seems daemons will be a disappointment but jumping ship is not the answer I will be sticking by chaos until the end of the the universe

[*Furyou Miko]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Forum%20Comments/MikoAnga.png There's a lot of bad blood in here, so just to diffuse things, here's a cute land raider with a pink fluffy girl.

 

 

http://www.diefestung.com/forum/galerie/bilder/bild-1569.jpg

 

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Forum%20Comments/MikoEek.png Oops, did I get that the wrong way round?

 

[Plaguecaster]

That really is a pretty

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Forum%20Comments/MikoAnga.png There's a lot of bad blood in here, so just to diffuse things, here's a cute land raider with a pink fluffy girl.

http://www.diefestung.com/forum/galerie/bilder/bild-1569.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Forum%20Comments/MikoEek.png Oops, did I get that the wrong way round?

That is a pretty cute land raider

[the jeske]

I am sorry Jeske but using Daemons as count as dark Eldar is just a

plain bad idea one mainly for the fact will be very annoying for both

you and your opponent unless properly converted most wouldn't let you do

it ,two it is such an insult to chaos ok you may not be a  a major

fluff person probably more a competitive player but some of us treat

fluff like the bible no matter what way you do it it will still be a

chaos daemon army, finally the fact of the matter is you shouldn't be

forced to use a count as army for a army you love for their fluff and

their models ok it seems daemons will be a disappointment but jumping

ship is not the answer I will be sticking by chaos until the end of the

the universe

I dont see a problem . horrors are shoting ? yes they are . warriors are shoting? yes they are . easy counts as and the banner/exalted demon/musican can be the sybarite/hvy weapon/special weapon guys. Mix of netts and letters as DE gladiators ? I doubt anyone would mix those , those chicks with claws are the other chicks with claws , the dudes with swords are dudes with swords etc. wrecks =plaguies . sick/zombi looking dudes . perefect fit for both . etc etc.

 

 

+ fluff is dead and gave Thorpe killed it with his happy chaos family dex.

[Kythnos]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Forum%20Comments/MikoAnga.png There's a lot of bad blood in here, so just to diffuse things, here's a cute land raider with a pink fluffy girl.

 

 

http://www.diefestung.com/forum/galerie/bilder/bild-1569.jpg

 

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Forum%20Comments/MikoEek.png Oops, did I get that the wrong way round?

 

 

Hah, I nearly forgot about the existence of that picture! :D

[Iron_Within]

I honestly don't know if jeske is joking or serious

[the jeske]

Does It look to you  as If I am the jokeman from batman ? I am jeske , I dont joke about list building.

[Leper]

Pretend spaceman fighting is SRS BSNS.

 

 

 

 

 

(which is not tot say that the 'game designers' working for GW don't need to quit calling themselves that until they design a game that doesn't punish players for playing it.)

[Plaguecaster]

Seriously Jeske Fluff is never dead it is the constant truth of warhammer 40k (apart from GW screwing their customers of course ) it is basically the sole reason for many people getting into 40k in the first place (well for me any way) besides I purposely erase most of GWs fluff nowadays focusing on my own DIY fluff

 

I can see where you are coming from Jeske but I am probably just too stubborn in my loyalty to chaos,

 

 

I also have no idea what SRS BSNS can someone please explain????

[Brother Dakath]

SRS BSNS is a way of saying "serious business" usually in a sarcastic tone.

[Urauloth]

 

1) good at melee

2) be able to get to melee

 

Kelly appears to vehemently believe these should be mutually incompatible as far as chaos factions are concerned

[Warsmith Aznable]

 

 

1) good at melee

2) be able to get to melee

 

Kelly appears to vehemently believe these should be mutually incompatible as far as chaos factions are concerned

 

I miss teleporting icons...

[Nehekhare]

I gotta admit my mind was blown today as I realized I had misunderstood the warpstorm table:

 

5,6,8,9: roll for every unengaged daemon unit of a certain god PLUS EVERY UNENGAGED ENEMY UNIT ON THE TABLE, get hit on 6.

 

get rerolls for every instrument of that god. so 3/4 of your units ignore it (different god), then 5/6 ignore it (roll), then get rerolls for instruments.

 

that is basically imhoteking your opponent, NOT yourself!

 

while one warlord trait lets you reroll the table (which Fateweaver always gets).

 

still...

2 wipes your army (~3-4 wounds to all units, destroyed on double6!)

3 randomly kills one of your HQs

4 reduces your army to 6++ saves (1/2 chance)

5-9: RIDICULOUS amounts of dice (t)rolling

10: 4++ (only +1/3 chance, so not as good as 4 is bad)

11: randomly kill 1 enemy psyker (IF there is one: not as good as 3 is bad)

12: get 2d6+3 basic troops (again not as good as 2 is bad! may generate add killpoints, especially when you don't have add. models: doa)

 

the instability tests are similar:

snake eyes: recover all wounds lost IN THAT CC PHASE ONLY

boxcars: whole unit destroyed

rest: loose wounds >LD (but don't regain wounds for <LD!)

 

so again: mostly disadvantageous, worse than fearless - but at least better than loosing CC without instability (either flee or get run down).

[Sception]

I gotta admit my mind was blown today as I realized I had misunderstood the warpstorm table:

 

5,6,8,9: roll for every unengaged daemon unit of a certain god PLUS EVERY UNENGAGED ENEMY UNIT ON THE TABLE, get hit on 6.

 

Are you sure?  Most rumors I heard only had 8 & 9 rolling for enemy units, not 5 & 6.

 

Even so, the chart is still unfavorable, and still a massive time sink for minimal gameplay value added.  As with most of the random daemon stuff.

[Kythnos]

 

I gotta admit my mind was blown today as I realized I had misunderstood the warpstorm table:

 

5,6,8,9: roll for every unengaged daemon unit of a certain god PLUS EVERY UNENGAGED ENEMY UNIT ON THE TABLE, get hit on 6.

 

Are you sure?  Most rumors I heard only had 8 & 9 rolling for enemy units, not 5 & 6.

 

Even so, the chart is still unfavorable, and still a massive time sink for minimal gameplay value added.  As with most of the random daemon stuff.

 

While I agree on the time sink problem, I wouldn't call a chart that supports your army in 7 of 11 cases unfavourable. I even think it definitely adds some entertaining value for a beer and pretzel game, but in more competetively orientated games the random factor is likely going to be a bother.

[Blood Shadow]

The warpstorm table isn't as bad as i thought with hitting enemy units as well, its still pretty harsh though considering we have instability as well which can wipe out entire units

[Sception]

So what's the running theory with daemons looking like?  I mean, apart from "just don't run them".  A couple large units of daemonettes with heralds, unit of bearers with herald manning an ADL with icarus or quad, fast stuff, allied drake/valkyrie, maybe a couple FMCs or grinders?

 

Deep strike the daemonettes, relying on either icons or just their extra run move to deal with scatter, hope the fast stuff can weather a couple rounds of shooting/melee until they get there?  Do I have that right?

[Trevak Dal]

Jeske you are missing a point by miles. I wonder how you inferred that I said that people who dont like codex are trolls. Civillised discussion wheter codex is not or bad is legit. But last 4 pages of topic has dissolved in inflammatory posts of 4 or so people trolling, whining, flaming and several cries of GW/Kelly sux!. I deem this highly inappropriate for this  forum.

The scoreboard doesn't lie sir, Phil Kelly does indeed suck. He did two pretty awesome books, and when it came time to do our factions, we got the shaft because we're "LOL Chaos". It's better than the last dex BY FAR, but Chaos doesn't have Battle Brother allies like every other army can have, the only ones worse off than us are Tyranids.

 

Yeah we can cast powers on units and all, but we can't join a Juggerlord with Blood Crushers-something that had me interested in making a Juggerlord.

 

There needs to be a FAQ that fixes this codex.

 

Abaddon makes Terminators scoring (Not Troops): Furthermore marked terminators under Abaddon count as the Cult Marine equivalent with all relevant bonuses and perks.

 

Models with the Mark of Slaanesh using Unwieldy weapons strike at I2 instead of I1.

 

Unmarked Chaos Lord (Warlord) make Chosen Troops. Chosen get 2 specials per 5 guys, (special ccws, shooting weapons.) and 1 heavy per unit. Chosen may be marked.

 

Unmarked Jump Pack Lord (Warlord) makes raptors troops (does not stack with unlocking chosen). Raptors may be marked.

 

Drop Pods, with Drop Pod assault rules.

 

An assault ramp option for Rhinos, that makes them assault vehicles (30 pts)

 

Daemon Weapon table similar to the one in the Grey Knights book added (copy and paste that bastard even, but with the Daemon Weapon rule we have)

 

Murder Sword is made a Daemon Weapon (d6 attacks, 2 handed) in addition to it's current rules and after the target is slain, you may elect another target.

 

Dark Apostles and Warpsmiths gain access to the full armory (Bikes, jump packs, Terminator Armor)

 

Slaanesh Marked lords get access to Doom Siren

 

Warpsmith Warlord makes Oblits, Muties, Dreds, and Daemon Engines scoring (not troops).

 

Dark Apostle Warlord makes Possessed CSMs Troops.

 

Mutilators gain Rampage.

 

Possessed CSMs, can buy two boon table rolls for the unit. Any additional rolls will only benefit the champion of the unit won from challenges.

 

Daemon Engines and Drednoughts can be marked, with various effects.

 

Plague Marines only get 1 special per 5 guys (Because they aren't Chosen CSMs)

 

Beserkers get their "Khornate Weapons" included in their cost, they are changed to strength as user ap5 with rending and shred. No upgrades available.

 

Noise Marines get Combat Tactics.

 

Ksons get access to Heavy Bolters which can use the AP3 ammo. Aspiring Sorcerer does not have to roll on the Tzeentch table (but of course cannot roll on any other god's table, may only roll on the Tzeentch Table, and the Psychic powers allowed by CSMs)

 

Special Characters who roll on the Boon table Dark Apotheosis or Spawnhood may elect to re-roll the result once. Abaddon Must Reroll if he gets either result.

 

And a Rulebook addendum that states that if a friendly unit uses a assault grenade during the shooting phase against an enemy unit and it hits (regardless whether it causes any wounds) any friendly units attacking that enemy unit counts as having Frag Grenades for the rest of the game turn.

 

Bayum. Much better, not Wardian-ly over powered, would open up some fun options.

[RapatoR]

^ I don't think its in any doubt that its a bad dex rapator, and its damaging the number of armies we are gonna see around, which is another bad thing. You can disagree with our opinions and views, but calling us trolls isn't exactly constructive. But please, enlighten us as to how this is a good, well constructed dex/benefits 40k as a diverse system? All I see happening is necrons continuing to dominate competitive play, and now one of the armies that could beat it is likely to be not seen anymore.

 

A I posted above valid criticism doesn't equal trolling (and that is excluding immaturity and an apparent lack of good manners), but since everyone seems to miss a point, I give up on this matter. 

Since it is obvious from rumours, that dex was redesigned from the very core, I will reserve my judgement until reading book several times (previous posts clearly indicate that wording is very important) and presumably playing several times. Still, in my opinion we will probably know if it is a "good book" (good meaning it has competive potential) after FAQ(s), other release(s), and tournament(s). (Remember, noone was exactly hyped about demon update too, until it showed up on tournaments). Heck, maybe we should even wait until all books are updated for 6th as main balance issues are caused by 5th (GK) and 5,5 ed (crons) books.