Our friends from the warp

[Nehekhare]

Hey we're chaos - bitter and twisted ;)

 

I actually like the phrase "methodical negativity", but the exaggeration is just part highlighting, part comic relief, so don't take it too seriously - I mean no harm.

 

About the age thing: I think people like us (>18) just don't fit into GWs target group anymore. We already have armies, we only buy things to update, we consider rules and tabletop performance before we buy, we buy from 3rd parties. Money is made by hooking up children on (plastic) crack, so they blackmail their parents tino buying stuff they themselves couldn't care less about anyway. Over the years, the design was adjusted to capitalize on that marketing strategy.

[the jeske]

They are low price. Basically you'll have about 18 bloodletters for the

price of 10 man MEQ squad with specials, you can either make them 2

squads of 10 or 1 bigger squad, when they charge 18 models squad they

lose 6 models, you lose about 7 models, which is more than half for them

and less than half for you. On the second turn they're wasted.

that is not the problem with them . the problem is that bigger squads arent cheap [200pts is not cheap for a unit that does only melee] and small die too fast . worse of it those big ones die too fast for what they cost . the nurgle ones are ok , because shrouding helps them [well as long as they dont get by no cover stuff] , khorn demons or netts are too weak with their low t , low sv etc. and god help them if they get hit by a template .

 

 

 

 

The same goes against shooting, if they will come into bolter range - they are exposed to your charge,

how is 30" treat range the same as 12+d6"[with instrument taken]? and that is unit on unit thing which rarly happens in w40k .

[AekoldHelbrass]

that is not the problem with them . the problem is that bigger squads arent cheap [200pts is not cheap for a unit that does only melee] and small die too fast . worse of it those big ones die too fast for what they cost . the nurgle ones are ok , because shrouding helps them [well as long as they dont get by no cover stuff] , khorn demons or netts are too weak with their low t , low sv etc. and god help them if they get hit by a template .

Fair enough, they are really vulnerable to templates. Well, so the magic formula is: protect your defilers and ectoplasmas with Bloodletters, so you will shoot far and scary, and enemy will be afraid to come closer and punch you with PF.

 

Oh wait, they have lascannons... Scratch that, Daemons for CSM are just a waste of points.

how is 30" treat range the same as 12+d6"[with instrument taken]? and that is unit on unit thing which rarly happens in w40k .

on 30" bolter squad is not a threat. They are a threat when they came closer than 12", which is pretty much guaranteed charge for you.

 

As my main opponents is CC BA, I still think that I can utilize Bloodletters to some degree, but I do not expect them to survive, just to take back their points.

 

BTW, Jeske, what do you think about Daemonettes against DA?

[Iron Sage]

Hey we're chaos - bitter and twisted

I actually like the phrase "methodical negativity", but the exaggeration is just part highlighting, part comic relief, so don't take it too seriously - I mean no harm.

About the age thing: I think people like us (>18) just don't fit into GWs target group anymore. We already have armies, we only buy things to update, we consider rules and tabletop performance before we buy, we buy from 3rd parties. Money is made by hooking up children on (plastic) crack, so they blackmail their parents tino buying stuff they themselves couldn't care less about anyway. Over the years, the design was adjusted to capitalize on that marketing strategy.

Heh, can`t do anything but agree I confess ;)

[the jeske]

 

 

on 30" bolter squad is not a threat. They are a threat when they came

closer than 12", which is pretty much guaranteed charge for you.

if they catch you in double tap range then your dead . no one is sending 5 man or even 10 man squads to take objectives . double taped and you charging in cover is letters bouncing off.

 

 

 

As my main opponents is CC BA, I still think that I can utilize

Bloodletters to some degree, but I do not expect them to survive, just

to take back their points.

I feel bad for him .

 

 

nettes are almost the same as letters. the upgrades they have , as nice as they maybe[specialy with heralds added] , mean little when charging in 6th is random and they do nothing outside of melee. they are better because of higher I and rending being better then ap3 swords.

[minigun762]

I'm considering taking a Nurgle Herald, adding FnP and tossing him in a squad of Plaguebearers. Will run you just under 200 (assuming you're fluffy and take 14 PB) and gives you a more durable objective holder than zombies and maybe even plague marines (for the points). 

[the jeske]

+3-4 flys to tar pit stuff . more or less what people will be taking most of the time . and a grinder maybe .

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Anyone think a Lord of Change and a unit of horrors may be an okay allied force CSM, or is it just better to gor IG or solo?

[Warsmith Aznable]

+3-4 flys to tar pit stuff . more or less what people will be taking most of the time . and a grinder maybe .

 

Herald of Nurgle

Minimum unit of Plague Bearers

Some Plague Drones

Soulgrinder

 

Does that strike you as a viable ally?

 

I'm thinking have the Herald join the Plague Bearers and just go do whatever. Send the Plague Drones to harass the enemy backfield. Use the Soulgrinder as a mobile AA platform, suckering the enemy into shooting at its AV13 to let my other vehicles move and shoot.

 

The rest of my army would be a tooled up CSM squad, a group of cultists, some combination of Heldrakes and walkers, maybe some Havocs, and a Chaos Lord. Until Army Builder updates with the new codex it's going to be hard to fiddle up lists, as I've become very dependent on it...

[*Furyou Miko]

Anyone think a Lord of Change and a unit of horrors may be an okay allied force CSM, or is it just better to gor IG or solo?

This is my plan once I finish repairing my Lord of Change (I'm basically in the same boat as you - love the LoC model, never had a chance to use it!)

[Nehekhare]

I think beasts of nurgle may be better at tarpitting stuff, the vacuum cleaner flies seem more like an icon delivery unit to me, which isn't really needed in a nurgle army that does better hiding in cover (shooting where possible) than DSing into melee range (exept maybe for a GUO, but IMO Ku'gath trumps that one by doing much more damage with templates than a GD without sweeping could do in melee). Taking both is possible in an allied detachment, though.

[Urauloth]

I've always wanted a soulgrinder, I really love the model. I'll probably get one and run it with a small nurgle force - plaguebearers, herald, drones if they're good (i haven't seen their stats yet and jetpack cavalry is a weird thing to be but i'm hoping they're decent and if jeske recommends them...)

[Shuggnuggath]

I played a couple of games with the new Daemon codex tonight. My Lord of Change was lvl 3 with 2 greater reward rolls and a lesser roll that I use to get the Staff for str 8 melee.

He is an absolute beast with 're-rolls out the yin-yang'. One game he had the spell that you re-roll to hit, to wound and saves plus 4+ feel no pain and 3+ armour from the rewards rolls. Needless to say he smashed a lot of faces.

[Nehekhare]

sooo...CD/CSM synergy (aka 1+1>2):

 

1) Daemon icons: deepstriking friendly units entirely composed of models with the daemon special rule reduce scatter to 1d6 if arriving within 6" of an icon.

 

2) Instruments of chaos: when a unit with an instrument of chaos arrives from reserve, you may pick another unit that is entirely composed of models with the daemon special rule, still in deep strike reserve and has yet to make its reserve roll to automatically arrive from reserves without a roll.

 

3) grimoire of true names: targets a unit which contains at least one model with the daemon special rule. on a roll of 3+ on a d6, all models with the daemon special rule in the unit have a +2 bonus to their invulnerable saves until the start of your next movement phase (-1 on 1-2).

 

4) divination: CD offer access to divination psi-powers

 

5) Chaos Daemons allied detachments ignore the warpstorm table.

 

Anything else?

[minigun762]

I'd hazard a quick guess that the LoC and 'thirsterthe will render our prince as fairly pointless, if only because of the T6.

[Iron Sage]

Nja..Not entirely convinced, minigun. I mean, if someone is using daemons as primary, and already will be fielding more than one flying monstrosity, I suspect there might be a few lists in which an allied Daemon of tzeentch, armour, wings and Black Mace will be useful.

[minigun762]

Sorry, I meant CSM as primary and Daemon allies.

I already see 'grinders being a fairly common ally addition.

[Excessus]

sooo...CD/CSM synergy (aka 1+1>2):

 

1) Daemon icons: deepstriking friendly units entirely composed of models with the daemon special rule reduce scatter to 1d6 if arriving within 6" of an icon.

 

2) Instruments of chaos: when a unit with an instrument of chaos arrives from reserve, you may pick another unit that is entirely composed of models with the daemon special rule, still in deep strike reserve and has yet to make its reserve roll to automatically arrive from reserves without a roll.

 

3) grimoire of true names: targets a unit which contains at least one model with the daemon special rule. on a roll of 3+ on a d6, all models with the daemon special rule in the unit have a +2 bonus to their invulnerable saves until the start of your next movement phase (-1 on 1-2).

 

4) divination: CD offer access to divination psi-powers

 

5) Chaos Daemons allied detachments ignore the warpstorm table.

 

Anything else?

Skull catapult works on all daemons if i don't remember wrongly. I don't have the codex with me at work so I can't check it though...

[minigun762]

Skull catapult works on all daemons if i don't remember wrongly. I don't have the codex with me at work so I can't check it though...

Confirmed, it says "Any friendly daemon..."

[Nehekhare]

Skull catapult works on all daemons if i don't remember wrongly. I don't have the codex with me at work so I can't check it though...

indeed!

 

albeit they didn't really clarify whether "any friendly daemon unit" means the USR or the codex, so it may get FAQed away =/

 

(btw this applies to the icon thing, too: units with "a different daemonic alignment" reduce scatter...CSM with the daemon USR do not have any daemonic alignment)

 

but for the time being, this is what we have.

 

not much, sadly.

[Brother Ambroz]

I'd hazard a quick guess that the LoC and 'thirsterthe will render our prince as fairly pointless, if only because of the T6.

 

Possibly minigun but I believe our princes still have some viability, if for no other reason than the number of D6 extra fleshbane attacks.

[Sception]

 

I'd hazard a quick guess that the LoC and 'thirsterthe will render our prince as fairly pointless, if only because of the T6.

 

Possibly minigun but I believe our princes still have some viability, if for no other reason than the number of D6 extra fleshbane attacks.

 

This.  Black Mace (and to a lesser extent AoBF, if you're running two princes) ramps that CSM Prince's output into the ludicrous range.  Greater Daemons may be tough enough not to get pasted by a single railgun round, but none of the daemon monsters can cause that much carnage in melee.

 

Kind of sad, actually, that the daemons of chaos book doesn't have access to any daemon weapons.

[minigun762]

Daemon weapons might be enough to keep them viable. Let's hope so.

[EricBasser]

It would cost a bit more, and random, but Mastery Level 3 Prince, all Biomancy, and the hellforged artefact that basically does the same as the biomancy power gets you 2D3 attacks.

[Nehekhare]

if not for the mace, fearless >> instability.