Chaos predator. Is it worth the points and the money?

[Tking]

Hello guys I have came seeking advice, I wish to know you guys's opinions on using a pred and how effective it has been for you. I don't typically run a list that has many models with an AV value the only two being a hellbrute and a Baledrake so is it worth adding a pred?

[*Furyou Miko]

Pretty much yes, especially if you can free up points by dropping the 'brute.

[totgeboren]

I use one with autocannon, lascannons and a havoc launcher, and I have a hard time not including it! Every battle so far it has been brutal. It's so cheap and versatile, and tend to put a dent into whatever I aim it at.

 

I would imagine it being even more dangerous with a twin-las, but then it starts to get expensive, and the havoc launcher seems like a waste.

 

Using it with heavy bolters didn't work all that well for me though. They just don't do enough damage, even against infantry.

[Tking]

I will easily be able to drop the brute as i have a hard time getting much done with it 

[Lieutenant Steel]

I've also been considering using a Pred in my fledgling force, though one with triple Lascannons. What I want is an all-round anti-flyer/ anti-tank model but the problem I come to is that taking a Pred at all means I can't take as many Oblits and AC Havoks as I would like...

[*ThE*AkA*JaZzA*]

I include one with all Las and a havoc really good for being parked behind cover and picking off armour also a dozer blade incase it needs to move they are worth the points and money I plan to get at least one more.

[Tking]

well thanks for all the great feed back guys, you have all swayed me so now on my trip to the games workshop tomorrow il be picking up a predator.  And I may possibly be posting pictures.

[derpasaurus]

I really like the concept, and am considering getting one myself to fill the hole in points left by my retired terminators. They have failed me for the last time.

[minigun762]

I use one with autocannon, lascannons and a havoc launcher, and I have a hard time not including it! Every battle so far it has been brutal. It's so cheap and versatile, and tend to put a dent into whatever I aim it at.

 

I would imagine it being even more dangerous with a twin-las, but then it starts to get expensive, and the havoc launcher seems like a waste.

 

Using it with heavy bolters didn't work all that well for me though. They just don't do enough damage, even against infantry.

How useful do you find the havoc launcher on it? I worry its a waste against hard targets.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

I use one with autocannon, lascannons and a havoc launcher, and I have a hard time not including it! Every battle so far it has been brutal. It's so cheap and versatile, and tend to put a dent into whatever I aim it at.

 

I would imagine it being even more dangerous with a twin-las, but then it starts to get expensive, and the havoc launcher seems like a waste.

 

Using it with heavy bolters didn't work all that well for me though. They just don't do enough damage, even against infantry.

How useful do you find the havoc launcher on it? I worry its a waste against hard targets.

 

Against hard targets, sure, it's a waste.  But if you're out of hard targets or don't have LOS to one and instead fire at an infantry squad, the havoc gives you a mass-casualty weapon.  Otherwise, your lascannons are plinking a model or two.

[totgeboren]

 

I use one with autocannon, lascannons and a havoc launcher, and I have a hard time not including it! Every battle so far it has been brutal. It's so cheap and versatile, and tend to put a dent into whatever I aim it at.

 

I would imagine it being even more dangerous with a twin-las, but then it starts to get expensive, and the havoc launcher seems like a waste.

 

Using it with heavy bolters didn't work all that well for me though. They just don't do enough damage, even against infantry.

How useful do you find the havoc launcher on it? I worry its a waste against hard targets.

Actually even against marines and sometimes even terminators, it can be responsible for half the casualties caused, if not more (it sure kills more termies than the autocannon). Sure, when you are hunting vehicles it does nothing, but it gives the tank at least twice the anti-infantry firepower, making it a real threat to most infantry units.

One game it gunned down a Wave Serpent with a bunch of Firedragons inside, and as it happened they became pinned. The next turn the havoc launcher killed off most of the unit (I think one survived the crash and next-turn havoc blast all in all). I can't actually remember a single game where the havoc launcher has not caused more damage than the cost of the upgrade.

 

But to me it feels like the options on the tank can be summed down to 'twin-las or havoc launcher?'

Sure, you can go for tri-las and havoc, but you will get a quite costly tank which you will just about always want to aim at enemy tanks anyway, which takes away the point of having the havoc in the first place.

[the jeske]

well thanks for all the great feed back guys, you have all swayed me so now on my trip to the games workshop tomorrow il be picking up a predator.  And I may possibly be posting pictures.

and there I am offline for some time and you do this . poor dude , you made him buy a single  pred for a 0 av chaos army .

 

and havocks are bad unless you can spam them and even then for the same points , it is better to get an actual razor build . same cash , more or less same points and models , better efficiency . hiting almost 2 dudes with a template in a world of t4+3sv aint so good.

[Iron_Within]

What's the razor build?

[chillin]

I've also been considering using a Pred in my fledgling force, though one with triple Lascannons. What I want is an all-round anti-flyer/ anti-tank model but the problem I come to is that taking a Pred at all means I can't take as many Oblits and AC Havoks as I would like...

triple LC is too expensive, AC & LC is really only way to go w preds. Pred cant be an anti-flyer bc it needs a 6 to hit them. Only anti-flyers w hav are quad gun and hell turkey. I personally wouldnt loose oblits to take a pred (unless I was just sick of playing the same list over and over, which has happened alot w chaos since C:csm 3.5, or I was playing someone I was pretty sure I am going to beat no matter what I take). If u r going to take a pred, take 2, and lotsa of other armor as well, and make a sacrafice to the dark gods that u dont end up playing a flying circus army

[Hazath]

What's the razor build?

Razorbacks I suppose.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

One other benefit to add -on weapons like havocs and combibolters is that each additional gun decreases the chance of losing a main gun on a Weapon Destroyed result.

[minigun762]

But to me it feels like the options on the tank can be summed down to 'twin-las or havoc launcher?'

Sure, you can go for tri-las and havoc, but you will get a quite costly tank which you will just about always want to aim at enemy tanks anyway, which takes away the point of having the havoc in the first place.

 

You hit the nail on the head I believe.

That was the same conclusion I came up to with the havoc launcher. Using it with the AC/LC gives you a true long range jack of all trades shooting platform while going full lascannon focuses you towards high value targets and limiting you against hordes.

 

I'll admit that the AC/LC/HML combo is tempting...

[Excessus]

Personally I think the HML is useless on a pred that has lascannon sponsons. If it has that it will nearly always fire at vehicles where the HML will do absolutely nothing. AC/LC pred clocks in cheap like a havoc squad, and is quite nice if you have enough armour saturation on the board. As with everything, take them in pairs at least...

[totgeboren]

Personally I think the HML is useless on a pred that has lascannon sponsons. If it has that it will nearly always fire at vehicles where the HML will do absolutely nothing. AC/LC pred clocks in cheap like a havoc squad, and is quite nice if you have enough armour saturation on the board. As with everything, take them in pairs at least...

 

The problem with the heavy bolters is that the lascannons do almost as much damage as the heavy bolters vs MEQs in cover, and if they are not in cover the lascannons are better anti-infantry weapons. Ok, the lascannons are much worse if you want to kill guardsmen or gaunts, but the added utility they bring is nothing to scoff at. They are also great at killing 2+ save models, which I most of the time prefer to kill long before they reach my lines, thanks to our retarded always-challenge rule.

My predator has killed off GK assasins, terminators, Eldar tanks, a Dreadkhnight, PA infantry, nid monsters lots of infantry, you name it. It's really cheap and does quite a bit of damage to almost everything.

Ok, it could just be my meta that is a bit unpredictable, as many have at least 2 armies and you never know what you will face, but my little AC/Las/Havoc Predator is always there to fill in the gaps. I think it is a useful tank for the same reason the Oblits are useful. They always have the tool for the job (except it must be said that their not-the-same-weapon-two-times-in-a-row rule really have put a damper on them).

[Excessus]

Another reason I use them is that I think the predator model is really cool! :D

[Sception]

The predator's certainly worth the investment in terms of its durability and offesive output.  The problem with the predator comes from Chaos's limited ability to field a lot of mid ot high armor hull points.  If you're running tanks, you generally want to runa lot of them, to try and overwhelm the anti-tank weapons taken by a general 'all comers' list that you might face off against.  Chaos kind of suffers in this in that they don't get squadrons of tanks, their troop transports are kind of weedy and non-threatening, and their elite vehicle options are either underwhelming (dread) or way, way overpriced (LR as a termie transport).  The drake is, of course, awesome, but being a flier its sort of a thing to itself and will absorb anti-flier firepower, not necessarily anti-tank firepower.  That leaves pretty much all of your vehicle spam to come from heavy support, and while you've got some decent options there (predators the best, but the fiend and the vindi are ok and I even like the defiler), none of them come in squadrons, so in single force org games you're going to have trouble getting enough hull points on the table to be intimidating unless you're taking guard allies.

 

So....  Yeah, the predator's pretty good, but there's a reason oblits and havocs are the preferred heavy support of most chaos marine lists, and if you do want to use predators you may want to consider picking up some guard allies to help get a few more hull points on the table.