Chaos HQ weapon choice musings

[minigun762]

I've been doing some thinking about what weapons I've should be using for lords and sorcerers.

For Khorne Chaos lords, I see no good reason not to take the blind axe simply because it's so good.

 

For most other lords, I like the claw & fist combo, in essence making a minor Abaddon character. That said, I am thinking that the black mace might be a better choice for Slaaneshi lords to make full use of their I6.

 

As for sorcerers, I may be over thinking it but my feeling is that if you're likely to use biomancy and therefore use the increased I & A power, I wouldn't waste it on a force axe. I would instead consider the force stave, of course part of that might be because the idea of a S9 force weapon with iron arm seems fun!

With telepathy, I think you can keep the force axe as it's going to be a backup weapon anyway. With either set of powers, I'm not sure the force sword really offers that much.

 

Anyway, what have others been using?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think a Sorc with Biomancy would be better off with a force sword than a force stave, to be honest.  The drawback of the sword is that it gives no strength bonus as the price for its AP3.  Iron Arm overcomes that lack of a strength bonus, and the Attack and Initiative stat bonuses from Warp Speed fulfills a similar function since it allows you to kill other MEQ before they can strike which evens the odds a little.

 

Now, if I'm taking a non-Biomancy Sorc, I might take an axe or a stave.  Honestly, the axe is, I think, only good for a Sorc if he's lugging around a 4++ or 3++ since you have to make sure he's going to survive long enough to actually launch his attacks.

[chillin]

Yeah, for a K lord the blind axe is prettty much a must. Unless u r really afraid of rolling a 1 for daemon weapons (then play sm's ) then claws are ok.

claw & fist combo is certainly versitle but too expensive to not b a daemon weapon for my taste. If I were to take a non-K lord I'd probably just take claws.

I dont like black mace for lords b/c its only str 4, black mace is only good for DPs . (edit: I forgot that black mace was fleshbane, dont listen to me, I obviously dont know what I talking about. I'll have to give blk mace a try sometime)

I havnt thought much about force weapons bc I havnt taken a sorc yet in this ed of dex.

[Ammonius]

I too am getting good mileage out of the Fist+Claw set up.

 

In 1500 point games I go with a Nurgle-Marked Lord with Terminator Armor, Blight Grenades, Lightning Claw and Powerfist. I deploy him with a unit of Plague marines that he makes into troops. I call this arrangement a "Tarhammer".

 

Often, my opponent will try to avoid these guys, allowing me to hoof it to a midfield objective. Or, they will try to engage the unit, and get tied up or killed. When the inevitable squadron of Vendettas shows up, I can still try to make saves vs the lascannons to hang onto whatever ground I have taken.

 

Anecdote: Last week, I was able to infiltrate my "Tarhammer" close enough to enemy lines that I was able to charge the enemy warlord+retinue (A PA Chaos Lord with Black Mace) and challenge him. I elected to use the Lighning Claw, and so we went on the same initiative. Despite the advantages of the Black Mace, I was able to make all my saves, which kept the curse from going off. Meanwhile, he had to rely on his invul saves to avoid the claw atacks. In a rare surge of luck, my opponent failed his rolls, his lord died, and my Boon was +1T (!), leaving me to roll forward to the enemy backfield with a T6 Terminator and crew!

[minigun762]

I think a Sorc with Biomancy would be better off with a force sword than a force stave, to be honest. The drawback of the sword is that it gives no strength bonus as the price for its AP3. Iron Arm overcomes that lack of a strength bonus, and the Attack and Initiative stat bonuses from Warp Speed fulfills a similar function since it allows you to kill other MEQ before they can strike which evens the odds a little.

Now, if I'm taking a non-Biomancy Sorc, I might take an axe or a stave. Honestly, the axe is, I think, only good for a Sorc if he's lugging around a 4++ or 3++ since you have to make sure he's going to survive long enough to actually launch his attacks.

Good thinking on the force sword. I think you convinced me that it has a place. That said, I'm not sure I'd take it over the stave for biomancy for the simple reason that I like the idea of getting a S8-S9 weapon that can get me instant-kills without using a force charge. Sword is capped at S7.

As for the axe, I'd agree that you either need at least a 4++ or a T5 to make it worth worthwhile. Tzeentch or Nurgle Bikers with Sigil would be more than safe enough to use it.

Yeah, for a K lord the blind axe is prettty much a must. Unless u r really afraid of rolling a 1 for daemon weapons (then play sm's ) then claws are ok.

claw & fist combo is certainly versitle but too expensive to not b a daemon weapon for my taste. If I were to take a non-K lord I'd probably just take claws.

I dont like black mace for lords b/c its only str 4, black mace is only good for DPs . (edit: I forgot that black mace was fleshbane, dont listen to me, I obviously dont know what I talking about. I'll have to give blk mace a try sometime)

I havnt thought much about force weapons bc I havnt taken a sorc yet in this ed of dex.

I think the option for an AP2 weapon is worth the increase in price from dual claws to fist & claw. 2+ saves seem to be really in vogue at the moment.

I'm liking the black mace more, even on non-princes, for the simple reason that getting a lot of attacks and wounding on 2's is always nice. The chance for an instant kill or the little dead field is just bonus.

I too am getting good mileage out of the Fist+Claw set up.

In 1500 point games I go with a Nurgle-Marked Lord with Terminator Armor, Blight Grenades, Lightning Claw and Powerfist. I deploy him with a unit of Plague marines that he makes into troops. I call this arrangement a "Tarhammer".

Often, my opponent will try to avoid these guys, allowing me to hoof it to a midfield objective. Or, they will try to engage the unit, and get tied up or killed. When the inevitable squadron of Vendettas shows up, I can still try to make saves vs the lascannons to hang onto whatever ground I have taken.

Anecdote: Last week, I was able to infiltrate my "Tarhammer" close enough to enemy lines that I was able to charge the enemy warlord+retinue (A PA Chaos Lord with Black Mace) and challenge him. I elected to use the Lighning Claw, and so we went on the same initiative. Despite the advantages of the Black Mace, I was able to make all my saves, which kept the curse from going off. Meanwhile, he had to rely on his invul saves to avoid the claw atacks. In a rare surge of luck, my opponent failed his rolls, his lord died, and my Boon was +1T (!), leaving me to roll forward to the enemy backfield with a T6 Terminator and crew!

Good to hear others are having luck with fist & claw. T5 and 2+/5++ is plenty tough to crack.

[diabloelmo]

My Raptor Lord (marked to Slaanesh, no less) has made quite an impression on my local gaming circle with his Black Mace - whatever he gets into combat with generally dies a quick and horrible death. Of course, this means he generally has a target painted squarely in the centre of his forehead, but that is the price of fear, I suppose.

[Plaguecaster]

My Nurgle sorcerer runs a force sword and power axe combo with 2 biomancy and 1 Nurgle powers , then that way if I get iron arm I can use either the sword on most stuff changing to axe against 2+ save models , he has palanquin and sigil for added protection so he can stay in the fight longer . I usually place him in a large plague marine squad acting as a hammer and / anvil unit which either holds or destroys anything it gets in combat with, plus usuing endurance on units is pretty fun as well on Havocs and spawns especially which are downright brutal :)

[Sception]

I run:

 

blind axe on knorne biker lord

force sword on power armored sorcerer

force axe on terminator armored sorcerer

mace on prince

axe on smith

 

I'll eventually be looking into characters of other alignments, but I'm not sure what to arm them with.  Fisticlaws seems nice, sure, but it's really damned expensive.  I've kind of been considering dropping down to sword & axe, or just sword for slaan, or just axe for nurgle or tzeen.

[*Furyou Miko]

My Warpsmith has a power axe and the murder sword (since she can't take any other non-I1 weapons in the hand she can choose for).

[Sception]

I just try and keep my waprmith out of challenges anyway.  It's only init4, so if it does get tagged in a challenge other characters are going to kill him anyway, and if it's not a character it probably won't be getting through his 2+ armor saves.  Then again, if your area sees a lot of unit champs with fists or axes things might be different for you.

 

But regardless, I'm usually ok about keeping my smith out of challanges altogether, at which point going last doesn't matter so much.

[minigun762]

I'm surprised you'd add a weapon to the warpsmith. Axe and a 2+ save is good, even more so if you toss an Inv save on him.

 

Malisteen: There is a topic in the tactics section debating dual power weapons, with the assumption that at least one of them needs to be an axe to get through 2+. My personal feeling is that fist & claw is worth the point increase because you're going from a S5 to S8 AP2 weapon and getting shred with the same number of attacks as two power weapons.

[*Furyou Miko]

She's the fightier of my characters (the other is Ahriman), and she has more than enough ranged weapons with the mechatendrils as it is. Besides, I had a cool sword model I wanted to use and no-one else to give it to.

[Haunter!]

She's the fightier of my characters (the other is Ahriman), and she has more than enough ranged weapons with the mechatendrils as it is. Besides, I had a cool sword model I wanted to use and no-one else to give it to.

Rule of cool, the only rule that matters.

I'm still a fan of the claw/fist combo. It works well with any mark and gives you some fun options on how you can use your lord.

My sorc uses a staff and always will. Functionality be damned.

[wargame insomniac]

I tend towards Slaanesh. have already tried the fist and claw combo. Liked the versatility plus extra attack for 2 Specialist Weapons. Will definitely take him again.

 

For Daemon Prince the Black mace seems as obvious as the AoBF with Khornate lord.

 

The only one I am unsure of is the Burning Brand. Probably on bike.

[nurglez]

My nurgle lord is wearing terminator armour, and has a power axe and the black mace. While I'm convinced a claw and chainfist is the best combination for any non khorne terminator lord, the black mace is obviously a nurgley daemon weapon, and my lord looks Damn cool :D

 

For a sorcer I'd be inclined to suggest an axe or sword, depending on what powers you are rolling on (while biomancy can buff him very nicely, its still relying on getting certain rolls, while telepathy buffs other units better, in my opinion).

[Dam13n]

Well as I love the Medusa campaign metal Chaos Lord I tend to run:

 

Lord in TA

Mark of Nurgle

Burning Brand

Lightning Claw

Sigil of Corruption

Blight Grenades

Gift of Mutation (if I have points left over)

 

He's a beast, especially when teamed with my ML3 Tzeentch Terminator Sorcerer (I love boon of mutation, it rocks!)

 

The torrent AP3 brand is brilliant, and if it does take out a character, then that's another Boon for me.

 

Last game I gained 2 wounds, 1 toughness and eternal warrior. Unsurprisingly, he survived the game, and made his points back as well.

[zyl-]

I tend towards Slaanesh. have already tried the fist and claw combo. Liked the versatility plus extra attack for 2 Specialist Weapons. Will definitely take him again.

 

For Daemon Prince the Black mace seems as obvious as the AoBF with Khornate lord.

 

The only one I am unsure of is the Burning Brand. Probably on bike.

2 specialist weapons don't confer extra attacks, it's specifically stated in the brb that only 1 specialist weapon can be used at a time (hence pairs of lightning claws)

[*Furyou Miko]

Not true.

 

Specialist Weapon means you need two Specialist Weapons to gain +1 attack, rather than just any two CCWs. So if you have a Power Fist and a Lightning Claw, both are Specialist Weapons, so you get +1 attack. If you have a Power Fist and a Bolt Pistol, only one is a Specialist Weapon so you don't get +1 attack.

 

For weapons that can't be combined with other weapons for +1 attack, see the Two Handed rule.

[minigun762]

I really like the fist and claw but I have a mental block about knocking myself down to I1 after I've paid good points to get to I6.

 

People knock the black mace's AP4 but when other HQs are already sporting at least a 4++, punching through armor saves matters less when you're wounding on 2's.

[*Furyou Miko]

That's the advantage of the fist and claw - against non-2+ enemies, you can still strike at I6.

[minigun762]

That's the advantage of the fist and claw - against non-2+ enemies, you can still strike at I6.

But...but... what about those 2+ jerks? They will make me swing SO slow!

I never said I was rational haha.

[*Furyou Miko]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Forum%20Comments/MikoUnimpressed-1.png Oh, suck it up. You whine like an Imperial.

[chillin]

just looked it up zly, miko is correct, it only need be 2 "specialist" weapons, not 2 of the same kind of spec weapon (had me wondering for a second).

[Haunter!]

just looked it up zly, miko is correct, it only need be 2 "specialist" weapons, not 2 of the same kind of spec weapon (had me wondering for a second).

Indeed, one of the best rule changes for 6th.  Now if only we could take a chainfist instead of a powerfist... (for power armor that is)

[Trevak Dal]

What are situations where you would prefer to have a Sorcerer in Power armor over Terminator armor? And should you bother buying invulnerable saves, and if so, sigil or Dark aura?

 

Are Mastery Level 3 and a Familiar are auto takes?