Assaulting from a building

[Calnus]

In this case, an Imperial bastion.  Since buildings act like normal transport vehicles, can you disembark and assault out of one in the same turn?  Also, can a jump unit on top of the bastion move down using their jump packs and assault normally?

 

And on a seperate note, I've been playing my jump marines where if I have to cross terrain at any point during a charge, i roll 3D6.  I was reading the rules for jump infantry though, and it says you can leap over terrain when using your jump packs, either when moving or charging.  So is it legal for me to roll 2D6, and as long as I don't land in terrain on the charge, work the distance as normal?  Or even if I land in terrain, just take the dangerous test and still use the distance?  This is of course when you use the packs to assault rather than moving.

[Seahawk]

1. Buildings don't have the "Assault Vehicle" special rule, so no you cannot assault out of them.

2. Yes, page 95 under Jump and Jet Pack Units.

3. No, you completely ignore intervening terrain with Jump Units while moving in the Movement phase. When jumping into Difficult Terrain, each model just takes a Dangerous Terrain test. Page 47. You fall back 3D6". How you mixed them up is beyond me.

[Calnus]

The assault like infatry section of the jump pack rules threw me off.  Since you have the either/or on jump infantry now (instead of the slightly more concise 5th edition rules), it made sense to use the standard infantry rules for charging if you use the jump ability to move 12" in the same turn.

 

Is there anywhere the charge distance rule is spelled out besides the unit type entry?  I've been told to use the 3D6 distance before (even when using the packs to get HoW hits in), and want to make sure I can back it up to the more annoying tournament players I occasionally run into.

[Fibonacci]

If you and your opponent agree that a building has assault ramps before the game, then you can assault on the turn you disembark.  Otherwise, no. 

 

Check out the Battlements section on page 95.  Any model on top is not embarked and can jump down -- either with packs or the "gravity sux" short-cut -- during their movement phase.  Either way, this is a normal move and does not prevent them from assaulting later that turn.

[Seahawk]

 

Is there anywhere the charge distance rule is spelled out besides the unit type entry?

 

Page 20, under CHARGE MOVE. ;)

 

Absolutely nothing rolls any higher than 2D6. Ever. Terrain forces you to roll 3D6 and take the two lowest (still only 2D6), Grav Wave generators halve the distance, Fleet allows you to reroll any of the dice, and if you didn't move as Jump Infantry in the movement phase, you get to reroll the distance in the assault phase. That's it. The 3D6 move for jump infantry is exceedingly clearly labeled under FALL BACK MOVES. As mentioned, a charge move is not a fall back move, these are two very different things, and are labeled as such.

[Calnus]

I think you're missing my point Seahawk.  I totally understand the difference between fall back and assault moves.

 

My situation is thus--previously I have been playing where if I charged through or into terrain with my jump marines, I rolled 3D6 and took the two lowest, not bothering with dangerous terrain (unless of course the terrain was dangerous).  This freaking sucked.  You're saying I should instead use the jump packs, roll for dangerous only if I land in terrain, and just roll the standard 2D6, with re-roll?

 

And would you say I'm also allowed to roll just 2D6 even if I use my jump packs to move, but I sacrifice hammer of wrath and the distance re-roll and still take dangerous checks?

 

And can you explain where the distinction is spelled out besides the unti type description and the charge distance explanation in the assault section (if there is any additional reference)?

[Seahawk]

You never said you were making a difficult terrain test; you were saying that you were rolling 3D6 and adding them all together for your assault move, which is wrong.

 

You follow the rules for assaulting through terrain as normal. That means your assault squad rolls 3D6 and takes the two lowest. If you're using the jump pack in the assault phase instead of the movement phase, you are allowed to reroll the dice. You also get Hammer of Wrath. If you don't use your jump packs in the assault phase, you just roll 3D6 and take the two lowest, that's it.

 

Like I said before, there is no distinction. All units roll the exact same dice for assaulting. The exceptions are Bikes, Beasts, and Cavalry, as stated in their Unit Type entries.

[Calnus]

Maybe I wasn't being clear in my posts.  In the unit section under jump infantry, it says that jump units may move over terrain when using their jump packs in the movement or assault phases (book is at home, so I'm paraphrasing).  Does that not indicate that if I have to cross terrain instead of landing in it when charging with the jump packs, I only roll 2D6?  I'm essentially jumping over the terrain without going through it.

 

I'll also point out that there is no statement that bikes, beasts, and cavalry roll 2D6 instead of 3D6 for charge moves, only that they are not slowed by terrain when charging.  Hence why I was interpreting the jump infantry rule to allow for me to move over terrain without penalty because nowhere in any of the different entries does it specifcally say roll 2D6 or roll 3D6 take the two lowest.  It only says slowed or not slowed, or can ignore.

[Seahawk]

 

I've been playing my jump marines where if I have to cross terrain at any point during a charge, i roll 3D6.

 

This is what was wrong, in the very first post. Can't get any more clear than what you said there! ;)

 

As for the rest, read the rules for assaulting. Every single unit in the game rolls 2D6. Every single one. When charging through difficult terrain, you are slowed by it and have to roll 3D6 and take the two lowest, unless you have an exception.

 

Now, I'll admit I've been reading the book wrong myself. Yes, when using your jump pack in the assault phase, you move over all other models and all terrain freely, just like in the movement phase. You instead take Dangerous Terrain tests.

 

The other units I described have it mentioned right in their entry: "...are not slowed by difficult terrain" means that they aren't slowed by difficult terrain, which means they only roll the standard 2D6 for assaulting like normal, as if they weren't going through terrain.

 

In conclusion:

 

- Infantry Assault: 3D6, take the two lowest, I reduced to 1.

- Bike Assault: 2D6, Dangerous Terrain, I reduced to 1.

- Artillery: Cannot assault.

- Jump Assault: 2D6, rerollable, Dangerous Terrain, ignore intervening everything, I not reduced. (if not using Jump Packs, then as Infantry)

- Jet Assault: 3D6, take the two lowest, I reduced to 1.

- Monstrous Assault: 3D6, take the two lowest, I reduced to 1.

- Beast Assault: 2D6, rerollable (because of fleet), I reduced to 1.

- Cavalry Assault: 2D6, rerollable (because of fleet), I reduced to 1.

[Calnus]

Alright, now that we're on the same page, let me ask you something--When charging an enemy unit that is in difficult terrain, while using my jump packs, do I roll 3D6 and take the two lowest, or straight 2D6?

[Seahawk]

See my previous post. ;)

[Calnus]

So you think even if I have to put the jump models in terrain, so long as I'm using my jump packs, I roll just 2D6 and take dangerous terrain checks?

 

If thats the case, then i think I finally found a reason not to move 12" with the jumpers every turn.

[Seahawk]

I don't think so, I know so. 

 

"When using its jump pack (whether moving, charging or falling back, as we'll discuss in a moment) a model can move over all other models and all terrain freely. However, if the model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a Dangerous Terrain test." 

[Calnus]

Thank you for the quote.  For some reason, I am incapable of reading that sentence and noticing "charging" most of the time.  And then I can't remember if I actually saw it or just didn't want to have to strip jump packs off marine models.