Deus Imperator Vult Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I was flicking through Deliverance Lost again the other day and the part where one of the Alpharius's look's see's Phalanx for the first time made me think. How it would be possible to neutralise something that big? Yes I'm sure vs The Vengful Spirit, The Conquerer and all the other legion flagships it could be destroyed but we know this is not the case since she's still sailing in m41. It just seems like this is going to be a large factor in the battle for Terra seeing as how it is the largest thing in both tonneage and firepower in orbit defending the system. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 IIRC, it used to be blasted into oblivion in the IA, during the final stages of the siege. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 llrc? (Sorry I'm not upto date with all the acronyms) I've not actually read the IA, I'm sure I will be condemned for heresy now, but seeing as how it seems to be being constantly rewritten by HH now anyway it doesn't seem that relevent. See I'm not sure cause, depending on which origins story you believe, she was either a piece of dark age tech in which case nobody not even the fabricator general would be capable of fixing her for use in the future. Or she was Dorn's baby and he built her but post heresy Dorn was sulking and mad so I doubt he would have had the presence of mind to rebuild her. Â Yet with all that I can't see her slinking away from the throne world with a bloody nose while the battles still being faught. Red Tear and the Khan's flagships perhaps but the I can't imagine doing that. Even if a starfort is capable of lightining raids and harrying which I severly doubt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 llrc? (Sorry I'm not upto date with all the acronyms)  If I Recall Correctly = IIRC    You want to neutralise the Phalanx (well, at least in regards to the Siege of Terra)? Strand it somewhere. Anywhere. The other side of Jupiter will do. Just get a covert team on it (or a strike force) and damage it's capacity to move in any meaningful way. Of course, I'm saying that as if it was an easy thing to do. It probably wouldn't be but that's not the point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 True but I just can't see Dorn even letting her move without a fight. Even if she were taken the moment it moved from high orbit you'd think he'd have teams to retake her (probably Sigismund seeing as he is Dorn's resident psyco). She just seems like that much of a lynchpin to the entire battle. I swear to golden throne if, when it comes to it, the Alpha leigion take it for a joyride without a serious fight that will be the sentance where I stop reading the books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Well some admirals would rather have the bulk of their force hiding waiting to ambush invaders rather than sitting in the open waiting to be attacked directly. Let the traitor fleet come in to Terra suffer from the orbital defenses on the on side and then have the fleet including Phalanx attack their rear. The traitors then have to fight a series of running battles against the Terran fleet rather than just one big shooting of fish in the proverbial barrel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 That's true and I think the same tactic has been used by m41 Fists and Black Templars (probably others). Even so I can't ever see her backing away from the fight regardless of her position so even if that's the case the traitors still wouldn't be able to achieve orbital dominance with Phalanx and her auxillaries at their rear... I just don't see how they could take her out of the fight but leaving her to fight into the 41st millinium. Did Dorn take Phalanx to the Iron Cage? Or do we not know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 The thought comes to me that Dorn may have said something like this... Â "Pull the fleet back and let the cowards in, we will break them upon the palace walls. And when they turn to flee we will be at their heals." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 It's a fair point. Or send it straight at the Vengeful Spirit and cut the head off the snake though that's not really Dorn's style. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Having just read through the Imperial Fists IA and the IA article on the Siege of Terra, I can say that there is no mention of the Phalanx at Terra. Not blown, not disabled, not moved away and stranded, nothing nada zip. However, there is also no mention that the Phalanx wasn't at Terra. So glean from that what you will. Â Deus Imperator Vult, I believe you have said that you haven't read Betrayer by Aaron Dembski-Bowden in another thread? If that is the case, I will put my theory into spoiler tags as it does involve a serious spoiler from that book. Â Â In Battle for the Abyss we see that the Word Bearers, along with the Mechanicus, have built a massive "king-ship" known as the Furious Abyss. It is huge beyond comparison and isn't just a shipkiller, it is a fleetkiller as well as possessing enough shields and armor to sustain constant fire from the surface of a planet as well as any and all orbiting defenses it may have while at the same time possessing enough firepower to destroy both. Essentially, it was built to destroy Macragge from orbit. Anyways, it gets destroyed. In Betrayer, we find out that Lorgar also had two more Abyss-class king-ships built. These ships are apparently the size of a star-fort while possessing the maneuverability of a much smaller capital ship as demonstrated by it moving through a void battle at a more than noticeable rate. It could literally be seen making vertical and horizontal movement. These ships are amazing pieces of technology. If I was Abaddon, I would have built a fleet of these instead of two Planetkillers. Â Anyway, my theory is that these are taken to Terra. They manage to largely disable the Phalanx before either being destroyed or disabled themselves. After that, there is the Siege of Terra while some more enthusiastic Traitors try and board the Phalanx. Â Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 I've just finished the second part of Fear to Tread so yeah I'm a little behind with my reading at the moment. Gods I'm tempted by that spoiler button. This is true my only information as to it's presence there was an assumption that no one would be dumb enough to let the biggest mobile fortress in the galaxy be away from the only place you know the enemy will end up. That just seems like the equilivent to having a Grey Knight guarding the toilets on Cadia. Even so I won't comment until I've got through Betrayer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 The Sky Fortress (the Imperial Fists' OTHER massive flying fortress thing) was destroyed at Terra. Phalanx was fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 The Sky Fortress (the Imperial Fists' OTHER massive flying fortress thing) was destroyed at Terra. Phalanx was fine. That's why I said there was no mention of the Phalanx at Terra. Although I also noted that in the IA article there is no mention of the battle for the Traitors to gain orbit either so I would recommend that nobody jump to conclusions and start screaming "THE PHALANX WAS AT TERRA! IT"S A RETCON! IT"S A RETCON I TELL YOU! nbklbfskgurieshfvdklsbhuffaesl!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 The Sky Fortress (the Imperial Fists' OTHER massive flying fortress thing) was destroyed at Terra. Phalanx was fine. Ah ! That's what I had in mind ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 This is straying into conjecture now but if it is that big you should always board it with a titan... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Getting a Titan onto a space faring vessel is an improbable and silly idea. I like it. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Getting a Titan onto a space faring vessel is an improbable and silly idea. I like it. Haven't read Priests of Mars yet, then, eh? As for the Phalanx, you don't need to destroy it to neutralize it. If the Traitor fleet can make an assault orbit and deliver their payload via drop pod and T-hawk, they can then fall back away from orbit and play tag with the Phalanx. Draw it away from Earth -- you don't even have to go very far, pull it out to Jupiter as opposed to the Kuyper Belt -- and then jump it with the king-ships. Damage the engines, leave it struggling in the outer system, and move the rest of the fleet back to an assault orbit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 I was thinking I read somewhere that Phalanx was large enough to dock cruisers in her fore section so what if a dark mechanicum vessle ploughed into her and let a warhound out of one of her hangers? I doubt point defence lasers could stop that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Yeah, the Phalanx is either similar in size to a Ramiles-class Star Fort or bigger. It's huge. What makes it even more amazing is that it is capable of moving under its own power, something the Star Forts can't do because they require a small fleet just in tugboats. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I like to think about Dorn, building that thing up on his own. That makes me laugh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Foes Remain Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Yeah, the Phalanx is either similar in size to a Ramiles-class Star Fort or bigger. It's huge. What makes it even more amazing is that it is capable of moving under its own power, something the Star Forts can't do because they require a small fleet just in tugboats. Wasn't it described somewhere as the size of a small moon? *Obligatory "thats no moon" witty comment here* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 It's very possible. Either way, it's big and, for something its size, fast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darog Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 There is a description in the books of BL, such as the last book of Soul drinkers, it is more bigger than Ramiles-class Star Fort, like moon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 The Abyss class has the fire power to cripple something like the Phalanx but without a fuller understanding of the stations offensive capabilities it is an open question whether it could be done. The only way I see Dorn pulling out the Battle station is if the assault force is so strong that the loyalist's fleet would die without making a dent in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Getting a Titan onto a space faring vessel is an improbable and silly idea. I like it. Haven't read Priests of Mars yet, then, eh? Er... actually I have. :blink: Let me rephrase that then - trying to get a Titan to board another ship mid-combat is an improbable and silly idea. I still like it. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271743-how-could-horus-possibly-neutralise-plalanx/#findComment-3312717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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